Phil Mckerracher

Ooh, this looks very promising. If it works (on our board) this might be just what I'm looking for. I'll let you know. All your help is very much appreciated, in any case, many thanks.

Hmm, quite a mess. It shouldn't be this hard to turn a light on and off. I realise there are a LOT of variables involved and some interactions are unavoidable but I wish I could turn off the clever stuff and just get the basics working first. Reproducing it in simulation is definitely a step forward, though.

I won't be at the theatre again until 22nd May and even then I can cope so no hurry, much appreciated.

Attached... Phil 2025.zos

Re-reading the thread (because I'm sort of back to square one) there were two points raised that I think are worth further comment because they can now be ruled out. 1. The potential differences between Flex and Leapfrog (and Solution) can probably be ruled out because I think this is a software problem and the ZerOS software is common to all those boards. I guess the hardware drivers might be different but the fact that I can reproduce the problem with PhantomZerOS running on a Windows PC suggests not. 2. Being able to reproduce the problem in PhantomZerOS also tends to rule out the (otherwise plausible) theory that something in the inherited show setup causes it. I think the causes have been explained fairly thoroughly - the colours are designed to either "snap" when triggered or fade in gradually with the fader (or a delay). It's the solution that I'm still struggling with. If I can get it to fade from black instead of white that will probably do it.

Update: Tried this on the real board in the theatre and it didn't work. The board has been upgraded from a Leapfrog 48 to a Solution which might explain that. But what DID work was better - Clear + Submasters. This cleared them all in two button presses, which is great. Except when it doesn't. 😞 It's not reliable - some faders still sometimes had to be cleared manually by cycling through submaster pages, finding active submasters and raising and lowering the fader. It doesn't always happen and I didn't manage to find the crucial difference between the ones that clear and ones that don't in the time available.

Update: Tried the above solution ("Manual fader 1 way") on the real board at the theatre and it didn't work, so I'm back to square one. 😞 The board in the theatre has been upgraded from a Leapfrog 48 to a Solution, so that might explain the difference. I'll try the simulated version of that when I get a chance. I noticed a progress bar along the bottom edge of the LCD display above each of the 10 submaster faders. It takes about 5 seconds to reach all the way across once triggered by raising the fader. The behaviour of the lights is different depending on whether the progress has completed or not - I would like to disable it completely but I couldn't find any setting for it. I set every delay I could find in both the submaster properties and the board settings to zero but it's still there. Does anyone know where it is set or how to disable it completely?

Update: I think I've found a solution, at least in the simulator. Recording it here for my own benefit and in case it helps others. What I did: The link here doesn't work but I eventually found the "capture demo packs" here https://www.capture.se/Downloads/Download-Demo-Packs and Phantom Zeros 7.14.4 here https://www.vari-lite.com/global/products/zeros-software (you have to click the Legacy Zeros link and download and unzip the file to find it). This allowed me to run the three capture demos. I couldn't get the "Club" demo to work at all - it loaded but none of the lights would come on. But the other two (Open Air and Dockhouse) do work and that's all I needed. I also discovered how to see what the buttons on the simulated Leapfrog48 console are - if you hover over them it tells you in the title bar at the top left. Far from ideal but a lot better than trial and error. WIth a working simulation I could at last do some experimenting at home. It's taken me all day but I think I've found a solution, which is.... [FX: Drumroll] After saving a scene to a "Multi Function Fader" (aka Submaster), click the fader (in the MFF window on the monitor) to open its properties and change Fader Function to Manual Fade (1 way). I have no idea why this works - the user guide makes no sense to me in this area, but it does what I want. The colour remains as the intensity changes. This is better for me than editing the default colours of all the fixtures because it's faster and less disruptive. A side effect is that the Flash button no longer works, but in a way that's an advantage since I rarely use them except by accident! I will get a chance to try it on the real board later this week. Fingers crossed. I also confirmed the solution to my other question here so I'm happy. 🙂

Update: I finally got this to work in the simulation using Clear + Fader buttons. Still more than 10 button presses but a big improvement. So, many thanks for that tip. I'll have a chance to try it on the real board later this week. I think I've found a solution for my other question as well.

We've come back to the title of this thread, which was "How do I control the initial colour of playbacks?". It looks like the answer is essentially to use the HOME key to edit the fixtures, a key I wasn't aware of (because it's literally invisible in the documentation and the simulator). I haven't verified this yet but it looks hopeful. Thanks everyone, I've learnt a lot of incidental stuff as well.

It's just taken me half an hour to find the "Home" button (on a Leapfrog 48). It's mentioned in the user guide but not shown anywhere in the user guide. Or in Phantom ZeroOS. Why aren't these things labelled? What's the big secret???

Thanks, if I can get the simulation to work I'll try it. (Someone has just given me links to it in another thread.)

Those links work at least. I'll give it a try. Thanks very much!

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I do want colours to cross fade in general, along with intensity. Like old-fashioned incandescent lamps with gels in front. If you cross-faded a red incandescent lamp and a blue lamp you would see magenta during the transition. That's fine by me. I was trying to keep it simple by just talking about a single fader coming up from nothing to full. In that case I observe that the colour changes on LED fixtures (but not incandescent ones). I never requested that and I don't want it. The green LEDs in the device grow increasingly in intensity and then reduce again as the fader reaches full strength, as commanded by DMX. Nothing to do with non-linear LEDs or brain interpretation. Kind of bizarre, when you think about it. Certainly unexpected. When I say "I never requested it", the default white colour has been set by someone at some stage (perhaps the profile supplied by Chauvet, the factory default of the board, a Zeros update, or a previous user at the theatre), and of course the board doesn't know or care who it was. They may have done this for good reasons. I want to change that configuration (effectively make the starting colour black rather than white, in this particular situation) and understand the implications. So far I have failed. I don't know how to make it any clearer than that.

Well, this comes back to my earlier point about "what does it mean to add or multiply a colour?". In your example where I'm effectively cross-fading from red to blue I think an intermediate magenta is actually the best option. It seems preferable in this situation to other alternatives like white or a dip to black, or a snap. I don't want green appearing in the mix and I don't want sudden changes that don't correspond to my slow fader movements. Those are just artifacts. Of course, there are situations where this is undesirable or impossible and a snap is better (physical moves and so on). That's why it's all configurable. My problem is I can't find a way to configure it!