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@kgallen sort of agree, in theory. Less convinced in practice. Got to open it up to replace a fader - let you know what I find. Ian Knight, you are sorely missed.

@Davidmk unless the desk is continually rebooting due to intermittent power I doubt such a fault would only affect the LCDs. Happy to be proven wrong!

@Archie D @kgallen Having acquired a Jester ML24 I've had this sort of problem. Not exactly the same but involving litvup but blank LCDs. It's like the ML end of the desk has hung. I've noticed that the 4pin XLR power connection isn't very positive and I think, maybe, the screen issue is connected to disturbances of the power cable. New 4pin XLRs on order but what do you think, will replacing the power connection help with my intermittent issue?

That is true.. I received a Juggler which had no PSU so I was stuck with the single one from the JesterML I have.

Yes, but all too often the cheapest old desks are missing their PSUs and it would have to be pretty bad to be cheaper than a PSU in any case.

There was one on eBay a few weeks ago with a flight case, I think it has gone though. To get a genuine power supply, it could be a possibility to buy or search for a really really beaten up old desk, use that power supply and either grab spares from that desk/try to restore it?

I'm researching Jester MLs at the moment (I'm buying one). Looks to me like all the Frogs & Jesters used the same PSU (5537500 42w 4 pin XLR PSU). Haven't found a genuine Zero88 one in the UK yet but there's a french site saying they have stock. Some versions of replacement ones have an earthing difference that can result in "DMX flutter".

Not sure what you could do with this or whether it's any help, but here is the original supplier and model of switching power supply that Zero 88 used for their desks. https://sinpro.com/en/product/show.aspx?num=441&find1=8 https://sinpro.com/en/product/pro_search_show.aspx?num=441&page=2&spcnum=4955

I seem to recall that the manual we had for the fat frog we used to have in our venue said a PC (old style, desktop) with the right connector on could be used as a substitute. Check the manual, see if I'm right and, if I am, it's only a matter of obtaining one (out of a scrap PC maybe), cutting off the connectors and soldering on a 4 pin XLR Alternatively, Ultralight sound might have an original or replacement.

If you have no luck elsewhere, it's probably worth posting on the Blue Room too as there will be a lot of these desks (and the others I list) out in the wild. https://www.blue-room.org.uk/forum/2-lighting/

Yes, that's correct it was Ian's post. Hopefully there may be someone out there with some info on this.

You were possibly referring to a post on here or the Blue Room by our good friend Ian Knight @iank99. Unfortunately Ian is no longer with us and I don't know what happened to what would have been an extensive stock of new and used Zero88 spare parts. If anyone reading this knows if that stock was salvaged and can be purchased, then it would be useful to make this community aware.

There's a non-gen one here. Can't vouch for it though (one user commented "don't work"): https://ultralightsound.co.uk/product/replacement-power-supplies-for-zero-88-desks/ I find this thread but the other two supplier links (10-out-of-10 and Stage Gear don't work any more). This page has the part number, which might be useful in searches as the same PSU is used by: Illusion, Jester, Juggler, Leap Frog 48/98, Solution in addition to the Frog series: https://www.vari-lite.com/global/products/frog-series#_spareparts There is this non-gen (maybe a ULS one): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/316738459895 There's a Jester thread here: https://www.blue-room.org.uk/topic/75786-zero88-jester-power-supply/ The OEM model number seems to be SPU41-13D-1 but having a google, other output connectors can be used. I suspect the Frog only uses the +5V with +12V only for the lamp; I suspect -12V isn't used.

I noticed in a relately recent post that someone mentioned (at the time) that they had some original fat frog power supplies (5537500) on the shelf. Could anyone point me in the right direction as Signify now say they can no longer supply the original part as a spare Many thanks, Paul

Ok good stuff. If I have a few spare moments some time (when it’s not sunny!) I might have a bash at building fixture definitions. I’ll post here if/when I do. Feel free to remind me if you need them!

Thanks for the offer. I seem to have managed to solve the problem as follows 1. I have taken the faulty fixture definition created when the fixture was first set up using rig sync 2. I have edited this to correct the errors in set up with the appropriate channels set be colours rather than beams, this was then saved back. 3. I then deleted the fixtures and then reconnected the two fixtures using the repaired fixture definition. After small issue that both lamps ended up with the same DMX address (not sure how this happened), this was easily corrected on the fixture itself. It is possible there is a problem with the RDM connection that sits behind this issue, for investigation on another day. 4. Finally I have deleted the faulty fixture definition from the list. This was to ensure it didn't get used in the future. I did try other ways such as creating a new fixture definition from scratch or finding an existing ETC 6 channel device with the same configuration and editing that, neither seemed to tick the box.

Well, the Jester series was launched 20 years ago, so it wouldn't be a big surprise if they did some (in hindsight) strange things in the software... As a software developer myself, I read "this is a complex function" more as "we didn't anticipate it in our initial design" 😉 Because, lets be real: 16 bit dimming is no different from scaling any other 16 bit value (like eg. a position) during a fade; and you obviously know how to do it, if you offer that option for some parameters. But if you approach the design with an "I enter and display percentages, so why would I use a different number range" attitude, then you will (consciously or by accident) try to make the numbers adhere to that presumption — been there, done that, happens to every developer.

I’ve been having a look around the manuals/forum (without much success/clarity). This post seems to essentially confirm what you observed earlier - 16-bit dimming was added for ZerOS. I assumed, but not it seems, that my Fat Frog would support 16 bit dimming as I have fixtures defined as such. Seems I must be wrong as this thread was about Frog range. I would have thought however that Jester TL would do full 8-bit dimming rather than percentage, but again this seems maybe contrary to your earlier observations. This does bemuse me, because of course the processor is working in binary (and I very much doubt they went to the pain of using BCD!).

It was an excellent thought, but unfortunately the Virtual Dimmer also seems to have 8 bit resolution (or even %), so the 16 bit parameter is still only scaled to 256 (or 100) discrete values. When I do a 20 second fade from 0% to 1%, the light again just "switches on" near the end of the fade time (which again makes me think that the console actually operates on 0-100 internally, because if it were 0-255 I'd expect the "switch" to happen after about 20/256*100=7.8 seconds, with another step after about 15 seconds).

That actually sounds like an interesting Idea. Will try!

I’m not sure if this would help but might be worth a play, if Jester supports Virtual Dimmer. Define a beamshape or position (something that will support 16 bit parameters) onto the channels that the fixture uses for MSB:LSB intensity, then a define a Virtual Dimmer then scale that 16 bit parameter with Virtual Dimmer. I wonder if that might be a method to get you better control at the bottom end. Might not work as a scale on a 16 bit value but as you seem up for a few wacky trials, might be worth a play.

Yes, I checked with a simple 6ch controller. On the Jester, If I assign channel 2 to the dimmer, the spot also dims smoothly (but only to very low brightness, of course, as it only uses 0-255 instead of the full 0-65535 value range). The spot still has a very non-linear dimmer curve (ch2 @255 is probably already about 3-4% brightness) — but it's much better than instantly _jumping_ from 0 to 3%. For testing I also recreated a fixture with channels 1+2 (dimmer coarse+fine) configured as a 'position'. When I then program a cue list where the fixture pans from full left to full right (which is actually displayed as "0-0" to "255-255" — just as mentioned in the manual — instead of "0%" to "100%" like it was with the channel configured as 'dimmer') then the spot does dim smoothly too. This confirms my suspicion that the Jester consoles only support 8-bit dimmer channels (which also explains the warning in the Fixture Type Editor). 😞

I don't see the ETC Colorsource V Zoom PAR listed either here: https://vari-lite.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/software-firmware/ZerOS-Library-4.5-RigSync-Support.csv or here: https://vari-lite.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/software-firmware/ZerOS-Library-4.5-List-of-Fixtures.csv which must mean it's not in the library and one reason why RigSync has not been able to patch the fixture, and has thus made a "bad stab" at creating one. Probably the RDM data just identifies intensity and non-intensity (I don't know) so the console has put most things as a Beam parameter (we historically put arbitrary control channels under Beam(shape) when there wasn't a better attribute, i.e. not colour or position). What would I do... I'd write my own fixture profile, and I can do that for you (if you're not otherwise au-fait with the Fixture Tools) if you can point me at the pdf for the fixture and tell me which modes are your priority.

Hi kgallen Thanks for these thoughts. I suspect you are right about the RigSync details have been corrupted in some way. In looking at the fixture definition it looks perfectly normal, however if I click on the various channel numbers that should be colours it appears they have been identified as beam parameters. Do you know if it possible to update the fixture profile currently being used by the new ETC fixture to correct this? Or is it simply easier to start again and unpatch the existing lamps. Then either modify the existing corrupt profile or simply start again and create a profile from scratch as per the instructions. And then add the fixtures again. Would you disable RigSync and do this manually, or would rig sync now use the correct profile. It's a pity Z88 don't keep the library up to date as they used. It seems all the UK experts have left the company and everything is been run from the states.

Hi Do you know the fixture will actually dim to/from zero smoothly? I have lots of different LED fixtures and only the most expensive (some Philips/Selecon fixtures) even remotely dim ‘smoothly’ to/from zero, and even then not as good as tungsten. Try patching the two intensity channels onto two faders patched as dimmers and see if the LSB fader gives you a smooth fade to/from zero. Commercial manufacturers are never going to release the source code of their products. It’s their IP and they wouldn’t want the bad press or support burden of scores of amateur hacked branches of code being out in the wild. The Fixture Software giving a warning about intensity being a WORD is normal and is a useful confirmation.