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Another point with XLR audio and DMX is the connection of the shield. In DMX it shouldn't be connected to the XLR shell, only the pin 1. Doesn't help tell them apart but worth checking at the same time if measuring impedance.

Yeah but Google "what is a transmission line in digital contexts", ignore the AI and go for Wikepedia although you'll need a coffee, some biscuits and a comfy chair. I think I may be learning more than the original author here!

For analogue audio cables, the impedance is not really an issue because the signal frequencies involved are very low. For digital signals the edge rate is very important and the capacitance of the cable has a big effect on this. Even for DMX at 250kbit/s the required frequency components can be well into the megahertz. Analogue audio cables of any appreciable length as can be found in DMX runs will severely attenuate the high frequencies required to convey a digital signal properly. For a digital signal like DMX, the cable acts like a ‘transmission line’ (Google that). That’s why we use terminators.

An ohmmeter won’t help you. The cables don’t have a different dc resistance they have a different ac impedance. The most practical way to tell is from markings on the sheath of the cable that will tell you it’s ’DMX’ or ‘digital’ cable maybe. If it says ‘microphone cable’ it’s not really for DMX use. You can use ‘DMX cable’ for microphones but ideally not ‘microphone cable’ for DMX. (My response coincided with David’s posting, I’ll read that now!).

So now you are into something of a grey area - I fully expect this response to attract comment. It especially needs comment from a sound tech as I'm hazy about that side of things. You can often get away with audio cables for DMX but no-one in their right mind would recommend that because you might not get away with it and you can bet the problems would only be apparent mid show and not at fit-up. The easiest way to tell the difference is to see if it is printed on the cable . 150ohms is not the resistance of the cable it is the impedance. Cables do have a resistance but it is dependant on length and is only important if the cable is meant to carry a current (as in mains cables where it is very important and is part of PAT testing). As far as I can tell from researching it, DMX cables should have an impedance of 150ohm as you said). 110ohm is allowed but not recommended. I'm guessing, but I suspect anything below 110ohm is likely to cause problems. The standard for audio is 110ohm but there is a wide range in use - 60ohm to 150ohm is quoted. Apperently, the main thing for audio is that the source and cable should be low impedance and the sink should be high (e.g. 10,000ohms). I Googled "what is the correct impedance for balanced audio cables" and read the AI response to get this information. This would suggest that a "standard" impedance audio cable would be acceptable for DMX but the really low (below 110ohm) cables would not. You can measure the impedance of cables with the right equipment but you can't use the resistance range of a multimeter. Google "how to measure the impedance of a dmx cable" for ways to do it. Your physics lab techs might be of help in this area. Ultimately it is better to keep your audio and DMX cables apart and mark them with something obvious so you can put them away properly. (That's a big ask in a school I know.) There is a reason why the standard for DMX is 5pin XLRs even though it only needs 3pins and 3pin XLRs are cheaper.

Hello again, so recently I found out that the existing cables in the school where I work with lighting and sound sometimes, has mixed xlr and dmx cables. The 'build in' lights in the auditorium are definitely dmx' as they've been done by a third party. But all other cables have been used for both sound and lighting. Now I know the difference between the cables is mostly their resistance, 120 ohm at dmx right? I read online that meters and measuring that level of resistance isn't as easy (and I don't think we got an ohmmeter). So is there a way to distinguish these two (is there a reason to?). And yea, all cables are 3pol. I kinda want there to be some order. Thanks Jan

Edward has covered this in several posts on this forum including https://www.zero88.com/forum/topic/10062-ad-as-additional-adress-unpatch-missing/#comment-42186 , where RigSync had repatched a fixture so the "Add As Additional" button was not available. I have pasted these comments as they may be relevant : Setup > Fixture Schedule > tap on a fixture's DMX address to open "Edit DMX Address". If the "DMX Universe", "Unpatch", and "Add As Additional" buttons are hidden, this indicates that the selected fixture is an RDM device that has been discovered by RigSync. It is not possible to unpatch a fixture discovered by RigSync, or give it multiple start addresses. Sorry to hear that RigSync changed the settings of RDM fixtures when you didn't want it to. If you go to Setup > Universes > Remote Device Management, there is a "Revert Rig Back" button, which will tell the fixtures to go back to the settings they had when the console found them. You would need to re-patch the fixture manually, to be able to access the "Add As Additional" and "Unpatch" buttons. Obsidians gain is our loss unfortunately.

Thanks DALX, that’s exactly what I needed, makes my life so much easier 😀🙏

Yep, that's it!

Hello Oliver_74 You can use the Add as additional address function found in the Edit DMX Address window to pair your five fixtures. When you select the DMX address of the first fixture you want to pair, the curser will flash in the DMX address window which will be blank. Type in the address of the second fixture in the pair, select Add as additional address, then Enter. The Fixture schedule window will show two addresses for the channel fader of the first fixture. I only found this last week when I wanted to pair dimmer channels under one fader.

So,you had them on 5 channels. e.g. Say were your fixtures had addresses 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 and you patched them to desk channels Ch 1 = DMX 10, Ch 2 = DMX 20 and so on to Ch 5 = 50 You then recorded cues and playbacks using these 5 channels. So they are now addressed as 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 These will need to be reflected in the patch however there are two ways to do this You could patch them as Ch 1 = DMX 10, Ch 2 = DMX 20 and so on to Ch 5 = 50 then Ch 6 = 60, Ch 7 = 70 and so on up to Ch 10 = 100 If you do this then channels 1 to 5 will still appear in all the cues and playbacks but channels 6 to 10 will not and will have to be added to all relevant cues and playbacks. Alternatively, you should be able to patch two fixtures to each of the existing channels as Ch 1 = DMX 10 and DMX 100, Ch 2 = DMX 20 and DMX 90 and so on up to Ch5 = 50 and 60. This would mean the show would look exactly the same but you would still have to treat the fixtures as pairs. (I know you can do this on the full FLX but I can't find it in either the full FLX or the FLX S versions of the manual)

Hi @Oliver_74, Just to be absolutely sure, do you mean importing an entire patch consisting of (for example) dimming channels, and LED fixtures, or do you mean you want to import a custom fixture profile into your patch, replacing a previous profile or adding a new one? If you mean that you wish to import an entire patch into an existing show file, this is unfortunately not possible within ZerOS. The patch must be edited within the show file. It may be of use making the patch, then saving as a separate file onto the root of a USB stick, however if you build new cues in one file, they will not carry over to the other, resulting in both (or more if multiple) eventually becoming out of sync with each other.

Thank you Dalx, but what I'm looking for is: i HAD 10 RGB Fixtures at 5 different dmx adresses (patched pairwise).... Now each of them has its own adress ....so question would just be if it's possible to import the patch, without loosing cues and playbacks.... greetings

One option for editing show cues to create a new show, is to select Save and type a new file name in the show file box. You can then copy a Playback Copy Playbacks into another Playback to edit, while keeping the original playback cues unchanged. You can then copy multiple cues as described by Edward in this post Copying Multiple Cues. I have copied blocks of files using the Copy in Z Key to make up a new set of cues, using an external keyboard to select ranges of cues, then did a Renumber in the new Playback. On FLX S, the renumber function is for 1:1 renumbering, unless you have a USB keyboard connected. You can add new cues to the Playback using Record > Z Key> type in cue number, then press Playback flash key. You cannot copy a block of cues from one Playback to another, but you can copy one cue at a time from one Playback into another Playback Copy Playbacks .

Hi Oliver, Yes, when loading show files in any capacity, show data is removed from the console's memory and replaced with the contents of the requested file to load. I'm not sure of a way to import a patch into an existing show file without this happening, I don't think it is possible, unfortunately. An alternate method, however - you could note down each patch configuration in a spreadsheet, and when the time comes, edit the existing patch in the desk to align with your spreadsheet data. Additionally, if you're not already aware, you are able to edit show files using the PC emulator, Phantom ZerOS. This will allow you to load a show file into Phantom ZerOS, in your case - edit the patch, re-save onto USB and load back into the physical desk when you are at the venue. This can be a massive save on time for when you don't have access to the physical desk, helping with your swap-overs. Regards.

Hi Archie, thanks for your answer. unfortunately this clears all Cues/Playbacks…so it’s not the right way for me to modify existing shows 😉

Hi @Oliver_74, You can import patches (without other show file data such as memories) via Setup -> Load -> Select File -> 'Setup Only' or 'Setup & Palettes', which will load the console's setup (including patch, defaults, settings etc.), and palettes if specified. Be aware that when loading files, it clears the previous show file on the desk, so make sure to create a backup. You could create some 'sample' patch files by setting the patch up, and saving that file. Then, once you load one of those files, you can start programming straight away with your patch loaded in from a 'sample' file you created. If you select 'Load Complete Show', it will load all data contained within that show file. If you mean that you want to import a specific part of the patch into another show file's patch, this is unfortunately not possible. Hope this helps.

Hi, I had a few colour leds patched pairwise, now each of those has it’s own chnl nr / dmx adress… Since I work in a small theatre, where a lot of acts perform often, i have to change the patch in each existing show… is there a way to import a patch? thanks Oliver

These have just appeared on a recycled web site FLX 4096 Controller AUD$4,290.00. They say they have 10+

@kgallen Thank you. I shall give that a try now we are back after the summer break.

I'll take a look at everything that was said, and probably come back to report. Thanks for the help!

Is it CSC you are thinking of That would be it! Thank-you.

Is it CSC you are thinking of? (https://www.ctrelectronics.co.uk/csc-show-control.php)

That is indeed an option, can't afford either a Mac or Cuelab myself though. I'll be taking a look at Miltiplay though and there is another Windows program but the name escapes me just now.

OSC is really useful from my perspective for when you just want to run your show off one main control centre, but not having lights + sound (and possibly projection) all programmed in on a singular machine. If that one machine goes down, you've lost all lights, all sound and all projection. Whereas, if you run lights separately with the computer controlling sound and projection, while a lighting console is controlling LX separately, if the main computer goes down then you still have light on stage and can control that independently. Something like this can be done with OSC via QLab (with Network Messages) however QLab does require a license for this, or using something like Multiplay (another sound + projection cue-based tool) as @Neil Macmillan has used, is another option that is free to use (but still very very good!). So, if you are looking for a cue-based solution and you use a Mac, QLab is probably the best option (you could have a "magic sheet" as @Davidmk has, using Cue Carts within QLab). These "cue carts" can fire Network Messages over OSC to trigger certain cues on the LX console, like a soundboard but for lights. However, if you use Windows, Multiplay is also a good option (not sure about cue carts on it though). If you're on a Mac and instead of using QLab, you want to use Multiplay, you could run it via Wine but this won't run natively on your Mac and I'm not sure if OSC would work with how Wine handles things, but it could be worth a try. Unfortunately QLab on Windows isn't an option as it is developed primarily on the Apple platform, and so relies on Apple infrastructure for features such as AppleScript integration. QLab Network Message Cues - https://qlab.app/docs/v5/networking/network-cues/ QLab Cue Carts - https://qlab.app/docs/v4/general/cue-carts/ If you do use Multiplay, I very much point you to Neil's video! (I used it myself when having a play with OSC over Multiplay to my Phantom ZerOS setup, so thank you very much Neil for making that video). Best of luck with what you want to do with OSC.