kgallen
-
Posts
1,812 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
70
Posts posted by kgallen
-
-
As an addendum to my posting, users may wish to set the Fat Frog into "Full" mode (Desk Setup->Program Mode) rather than "Partial" mode so that the console does not do tracking with the extra generics (if you don't know what tracking is then definately set the desk to "Full" mode!). Users experienced enough to use Partial mode and tracking or those with movers in their rig can make up their own mind which setting to use!
-
This is well after the event for Ian, but I thought I'd have a go at working this through in case anyone else has this issue. I suspect this topic has already been covered somewhere else on the forum so I may be regurgitating existing ideas.
So assuming Ian just wants more channels of conventional dimmers, he could get up to 12 more channels on a Fat Frog by creating a dimmer-only "moving" fixture. In the standard fixture list there is a Lamp+Scroller, but you could create a new fixture using the off-line Fixture Editor that just has a dimmer. Using the 10.10 Off-line editor for Fat Frog I was able to allocate the standard Lamp+Scroller to two fixtures and with the DMX patch, allocate Ch49 and Ch50 to the "lamp" section of the fixture (I didn't need to allocate a channel to the scroller). Since the dimmer part of a fixture uses HTP rather than LTP then the submaster should be able to control the brightness. It will be necessary to program a memory stack location beyond the end of the show's cue stack (maybe add a Jump to Q1 at the end of your show) for each of the fixtures, one at a time, with dimmer at full (select the fixture so the yellow LED is on then first finger wheel to dimmer 100%). Then the submaster will need to point to that memory entry with "Transfer No Time". When programming the memory make sure the Ch49 lamp is the only one that's on so that's all the memory contains, and after programming, wheel the fixture dimmer back down to zero otherwise that channel will remain at 100%. The Outputs screen is useful to see this.
I tried this using the off-line editor with a cue "onstage" and the submaster had the desired control over the fixture. When building a show cue stack the submaster will have control of the channel just as if it was a Preset A/B fader and can be programmed into the show. I tried this with a show loaded and programmed the Ch49 into the cue using the submaster and it played back as desired, fading in and out with the rest of the cue. This can be seen on the Outputs screen under the Fixture Brightness Outputs banner.
So you've got 48+12=60 generic channels to play with.
Probably cleaner to use the Fixture editor to create a "Lamp" fixture type with just a dimmer attribute. Maybe Peter will do that for us for the next Fixture release
If Ian's LED lamp was RGB then there is a fixture type specifically for these luminaires and I believe "virtual brightness" concept is supported on the Fat Frog to handle these RGB LED units.
-
JMH,
The FatFrog does not have a macro function. The macro function is only avaialable on the newer desks - Frog2, ORB, maybe the new LeapFrog. The fixture editor is common to all of the Zero88 desks supporting moving lights, but some of the attributes and functions (like macro) only relate to the newer/higher spec desks. The fixture file written out for the FatFrog excludes the data items that desk can't use.
Regards,
Kevin
-
Hi Morten,
I'm really guessing now because I don't know the insides of this desk, but from posts #3 and #4 above, I suspect the rotary switch will be available off the shelf from an electronics supplier, and may be something like this:
Hopefully Keith or Paul will pick up your post next week and confirm a suitable part... if not, have a look yourself and compare it to my suggestion.
Good luck.
Regards,
Kevin
-
Hi Si (Welcome to the Forum!),
Your question is slightly confusing as the Betapack 2s are already portable units! I would have thought you just need to install them into a wheeled 19" rack and you're away! (For example http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/32066-samson-srk-8-universal-rack-stands.html) I suspect your biggest issue is having a suitable 32A or 63A outlet at the location where you take the rack to - you could run a Betapack from a single 13A socket but that would severely limit the amount of lighting your could attach (3000W total, say 500W per channel).
If the Betapacks don't already have a cable tail and plug fitted then you will need to get some advice from someone competent/qualified with electrical installations. For example you might want 2 metres of 6mm2 TRS cable and a 32A IEC plug (single phase) wiring into the Betapack supply inlet (behind the back cover). This will all depend on what electrical outlets are available where you want to use the dimmers.
Please ask again with some more specific ideas/requirements and we'll try to flesh out a bit more what you might need. Ultimately you'll need to find someone competent to do the electrical work.
Regards,
Kevin
-
Fuses:
1/4" x 1 1/4" (6.35mmx32mm) 10A quick blow HRC fuse
e.g. SIBA 70-065-63 10A
Farnell: 117-5122
RS: 413-248
CPC: I could not find a suitable part (Dec 2009). The appropriate SIBA range is not stocked. FF01781 was the closest I could find but has an inadeqate breaking capacity.
Betapack 1 UK 15A replacement front panel sockets:
Stage Electrics order code 658-4621 (£3.91+VAT ea. at Jan 2010)
According to Keith, this socket is also used on early BP2's. Later BP2 and BP3 use a Zero88 custom-made socket - contact Paul/Keith.
Also for Betapack:
Triac BTA40-600B is Farnell code 980-1715 (£6.39+VAT ea. at Jan 2010) - Fuse-protected Betapacks can use BTA25-600B which you might find slightly cheaper at some suppliers (e.g. CPC SC07588 £4.84+VAT). BTA40 must be used for MCB-protected Betapacks.
Triac board opto-coupler MOC3052-M (6-pin DIP-W) is Farnell code 146-7848 (£1.18+VAT ea. at Jan 2010). (This part is a suitable replacement for the obsolete MOC3021 used on early BP1's).
Betapack 1 fuseholder:
RS 197-9519, Farnell 121-4783 (cap), 121-4782 (spade rather than solder terminals)
-
Hi Matt,
To source a 2nd hand dimmer that will accept analogue control and/or DMX depending on your Level Plus as per Keith's response, you might want to look here:
http://www.usedlighting.co.uk/category/1/11/13
If your Level 12 Plus is analogue (it will have two 8-pin sockets on the back) then you should look for a Zero88 Betapack1 or Betapack2. You could also look at the Strand Act dimmers but you might want to query the seller that they can take a +10 volt control voltage (Strand used to use -10 volt signalling).
As per the mains supply for your new dimmer, I (like Keith) suggest you take some advice from a genuinely qualified electrician for how to reconfigure your supply to handle two dimmers. In principle it looks like you have a 63 amp supply and in an amateur context this could probably be reconfigured to two 32 amp supplies for your two dimmers - you should get a proper electrician to do this for you (maybe about £100). You might like to spend a few minutes working out how many and of what type of lighting instruments you use, since by splitting the available supply to two dimmers you may need to restrict how many lights you plug into each dimmer - although the total number of lights can be the same as you use now and I suspect as you only currently have 6 channels of dimming, you could probably increase your lighting stock further.
Hope this helps; post/PM/email me if I can help any more (even if I am a month late responding to your original post!)
Regards,
Kevin
-
Hi Peter,
Interesting. You were right (obviously!); DMX Allocate was set to 3. I've corrected this and will try in the desk the next time I setup.
Thanks,
Kevin
Edit: This fixed the problem. Thanks, Peter.
-
Hi,
I have been using the v2.0.0.1 Fixture Editor. In this case, just to develop a simple fixture description for a 3-channel DMX Relay for a FatFrog v10.9.1. (The relay has duty cycle controlled by the parameter value rather than just on/off).
I originally developed my fixture for a 3 relay (=3 channel) "fixture", by defining each relay as a colour attribute, hence 3 colour parameters for 3 relays at consecutive DMX addresses.
I loaded this into my FatFrog and all was fine. I assigned the fixture from the ift on the floppy and used auto assign to give me DMX addresses 49,50,51 for the fixture.
I then decided that it would be better to have the relays assigned one-by-one as single channel fixtures so I could have individual tag control as what the relays control are independent rather than linked as would be pan/tilt/colour on a mover. So I edited my fixture file by deleting two parameters to have a single relay as one colour parameter (I also did one having the single parameter as the brightness parameter with the same problem as follows). The fixture had a different name and was saved as a different file on the floppy.
When I loaded this into the desk and assigned fixtures, even though the Fixture Editor says there is only one parameter, the DMX address assignment still wants to allocate 3 addresses for one single-parameter fixture (so it wanted to assign a total of 9 addresses for my 3 relays instead of 3 addresses as one for each of 3 assigned fixtures). So it appears the desk did not update the number of required parameters (to 1 was 3) for the fixture even though it had changed from 3 down to 1. I presume the fixture definition on disk is correct as the Fixture Editor says there is only one parameter (at the point it was saved to floppy).
I created a new fixture from scratch on the Fixture Editor (instead of editing my 3 parameter fixture definition down to 1 parameter) and this worked as expected - only requiring one DMX address - when I assigned fixtures and DMX addresses.
This appears to be a bug in either the fixture definition import from floppy on the FatFrog or in the file contents written out from the Fixture Editor on the PC. Tonight I'll read the floppy file back into the Fixture Editor to exclude the latter!
I was creating a fixture definition for one of these in case you're interested: http://www.dmxprojects.com/projects_dmx_relay.html
Regards,
Kevin
-
Ted,
You may be better off setting the address on the lighting fixtures to somewhere above A048, say A100 and A109. This is because the conventional fixtures will probably occupy addresses 1 to 48. When you go into Super User to patch the moving lights, they will be at the bottom of the list after the conventional channels, which you should see are already assign to channels 1 through 48.
-
This bug appears to be fixed in 10.9. Thanks guys
-
Hi,
On a FatFrog in Full (NOT Partial) mode I am having some problems with programmed chases with generics (no movers) when played back from a normal programmed cue stack with the Go button.
Using 10.8, if I do a run-time override of a chase modifier (e.g. Attack) for the currently output sequence, then sequences subsequently played (with Go) have the wrong chase modifier - wrong in that it isn't the programmed setting. This is when doing a simple run-time override rather than an F3-based select and pickup (no need, only one chase running).
I have back-tracked the desk OS to 10.4 and cannot reproduce this behaviour; I can change run-time chase modifiers at will and the next chase will revert to the programmed setting as expected.
I have played with this a number of times - swapping the desk OS between 10.4 and 10.8. It seems that 10.4 always behaves and with 10.8 you can induce the behaviour described above.
-
For the record, I have also had the external keypad numerics stop responding during a show, using 10.8.1 on a FatFrog. As above, normal behavior returns after a reboot. I don't recall this ever happening using 10.4.
-
Dave,
I don't believe that pulling the sub down to 0 is supposed to halt the movement effects or brightness.
This seems to be an enhancement in the 10.8 software release (although you don't say what version you are using).
See FR 5422 in the 10.8 release notes here: http://support.zero88.com/main/en/download/282
Regards,
Kevin
-
...but then I couldn't reproduce this behaviour...
But I think I understand what is going on now:
If I untag a parameter by doing Wheel Group+Wheel down then the parameter becomes untagged (this I knew). But the F1+Wheel Group seems to be toggling the fixtures *LCD* screen between the equivalent of Fixtures Output screen and Fixtures Output Tags screen, which I though were monitor-only features. The LED in the Wheel Group button lights when the LCD is showing the "tags" screen.
Note during all of this, the Beamshape Palette screen was locked to the monitor (and never changed).
-
Fat Frog 10.4.1
I have 4 MAC500 fixtures configured on the FatFrog.
With fixtures selected, holding F1 and a quick click of the Wheel Group button toggles the parameter values between --- and their current value (palette number or literal DMX value). This happens whether or not I have a palette screen locked to the monitor.
Q: Is this really untagging/tagging these parameters?
The yellow LEDs do not change state (if they were flashing they stay flashing, if they were steady, they stay steady). Fixtures were selected (red LEDs on).
First show with movers coming up...!
-
From your description, it looks like the fault is affecting multiple faders. This may suggest it is an ADC reference voltage problem or a 0V problem rather than a broken fader - unless you know the desk has been used in a very dusty environment where multiple faders could be very dirty.
There is a fader test mode on the desk; hold F1 whilst the desk boots, channel flash buttons then select various pages of fader test. If you can get into the test mode then that may help Keith diagnose the problem on your desk, since an ADC/0V fault will probably correlate with a group of faders based on the hardware design.
Hope this can get you going on debug before Keith has a chance to help you out...
-
You can program a memory as a sequence (which is I think what you want).
In program mode, press and hold the Memory Type button until the LED changes to Sequence. Setup a stage picture, press Program. Press Add Step, program the next stage picture, press Program. Continue like this for all steps in your sequence. If necessary you can insert steps between already programmed steps using Add Step.
The manual is available on this website if this explanation is too terse (same for MkI and MkII Alcoras):
http://zero88.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/List/Index/50/downloadsSee page 24
You can copy and paste individual steps (but not a whole sequence). See page 28.
The direction of the chase is set when the chase is run. See page 33.
Good luck.Edit: Update manual location.
-
Does a palette relate only to the fixture that was used to program the palette or can it be applied to any fixture (most sensibly one of the same type as was used to set it up)?
I'm a bit confused by the Fixture Output screen in this respect.
(Full mode, 10.4.1, FatFrog, Fixture 1,2 set as MAC600.)
Program a colour palette P01 as 'red' with C:M:Y as 0:255:255 with Fixture 1 selected. Fixture Output screen as expected.
Select Fixture 2 only. Select colour palette P01 and Wheel LCD says P01:P01:P01 as expected. However Fixture Output screen on monitor still says 0:0:0 when I expected it to fade to 0:255:255 (i.e. Fixture 2 assumes the colour programmed in Palette P01).
No idea what a real fixture would do as I don't have any attached :-(
Am I misunderstanding palettes or is the Fixture Output screen incorrect?
Edit:
OK, so I found this post in the Forum:
-
Hi K-Nine. Thanks for your answers and quick response!
-
Two questions:
(1) The Frog 10.4 release notes cite FR 5544 "lock output views on display tags".
What should this do or under what circumstances should it do it as my 10.4.1 Fat Frog does nothing when I do FR 5544.
(2) Manual page 6-10 "Frog Screen" talks about "130 soft buttons" in "Play Memories" of "Frog Screen". So whilst I can set these up under Super User, what are they and how do I get at them on my Fat Frog? The only "Frog Screen" I know I can get at is with the "F.R.O.G. FN" button and this just allows the setting of colour etc ranges for F.R.O.G.
This is all with an external monitor and keyboard attached.
Thanks.
-
[The pictures I attached at the time have gone missing since the move to the new forum format.]
Thanks for the tips on making a remote...
If I've done it right, there should be a couple of pictures of my concoction below. I've based it on the HIRK-433 Hybrid Receiver module (N87BN) and 3-button key fob (RN57M) from Maplin. I've used opto-isolators (CY94C) rather than relays to trigger the remote inputs on the FatFrog (thanks Paul for the necessary electrical info). It's powered from the desk lamp socket (using a 7805 voltage regulator circuit inside the remote unit) and by modifying an XLRM-F adaptor from CPC (CN00111) the desk lamp can be mounted at the same time the remote unit is plugged in. With output and 'thru' locking DIN8 sockets for the remote connection to the FatFrog, as they say, job's-a-good-'un!
By setting up the first three remote switches as 'go next', 'go 1' and 'go --' whilst focusing (on my own - sigh!) at the other end of the hall on top of a scaffold tower I can step through preset memories, return to the first or go to DBO without having to climb up and down the scaffold and walk back to the desk for each lantern!
Parts List (4-channel unit):
("e.g." if I already had the component in my bits box, but I've suggested a suitable part)
1x HIRK-433 Hybrid Rx module (Maplin N87BN)
1x 3-button key fob (Maplin RN57M)
1x Flexi antenna (Maplin LL80B)
4x SFH618-2 opto isolator (Maplin CY94C)
4x 150 ohm resistor (Maplin M150R) [in series with opto anodes]
4x 100 ohm resistor (Maplin M100R) [in series with opto isolator collector]
1x Push switch (Maplin FH91Y) [Learn]
4x Green LED 5mm (e.g Maplin WL28F) [channel indication]
1x Red LED 5mm (e.g Maplin WL27E) [power]
1x 220 ohm resistor (Maplin M220R) [in series with Power LED]
1x Yellow LED 5mm (e.g. Maplin WL30H) [status]
6x 5mm LED clips (e.g Maplin YY40T)
1x DIP2 PCB switch [optional: Link1/Link2 configuration]
5x 0 ohm links (or bits of resistor leg!)
For the power supply part of the circuit (preceeded by a bridge rectifier as I wasn't convinced the Desk Lamp output would be DC!)
1x 7805 Voltage regulator (e.g Maplin CH35Q)
2x 100nF ceramic capacitor
1x 22uF 63V electrolytic capacitor
1x 47uF 16V electrolytic capacitor
1x Bridge Rectifier (I used RS 261-328 but any would do!) (e.g. Maplin AQ94C)
2x 1nF ceramic capacitor [decoupling of HIRK-433 analogue and digital supplies]
1x 4.7uF 16V electrolytic capacitor [decoupling of HIRK-433 digital supply]
I also used an in-line 100mA fuse.
1x XLR3M chassis plug (e.g. Maplin BW92A)
2x Locking DIN8 sockets (CPC CN00765)
2x 8-pin PCB headers [remote connections]
9x 2-pin PCB headers [LEDs, switches etc]
1x 1-pin header [aerial connection]
1x ABS project box 120mm x 100mm x 45mm (Maplin LH22Y)
7/0.2 and/or strips of rainbow ribbon cable for wiring up LEDs, switches etc
heat-shrink tubing
M3 and M4 screws, nuts, washers, spacers
solder!
To make an 8-pin 'standard analogue control cable' for connection between remote unit and FatFrog remote input:
2x Locking DIN8 in-line plugs (CPC CN00753)
8-core cable (e.g. CAT5 ethernet cable)
To make a power cable from FatFrog desk lamp socket:
1x XLR3M-XLR3F (CPC CN00111) [drilled in the centre to take a piece of 2-core cable]
1x XLR3F in-line plug
2 core flexible cable
I made my own single-sided PCB using dry transfers onto a piece of Maplin WF38R and using WF10L etching fluid. (Scale pdf of the layout attached to this post.)
[As per the original poster, you use this information at your own risk! (But mine works nicely!)]
-
Before you send your Betapack2 back, check the control electronics fuse behind the back cover as it may be blown. If you need to replace it, contact the Zero88 guys unless you have a 50mA T (timedelay) fuse (and I think it is a 20mm glass fuse) or can order the appropriate part from RS/CPC etc (at about 20p!).
If you bought the B2 new, then I believe a spare fuse was provided with the product.
I'm assuming you've tried the dimmer in a known-good power outliet!
If you then don't get the front panel LED lit maybe the Zero88 guys can make some suggestions before you send it away.
If one or more of the front panel neons is lit, then an individual channel fuse is blown. These are 32x6.3mm 10A F (rapid) HRC ceramic fuses. Again a spare was provided at new or Zero88/RS can help you out.
-
Hi,
It sounds like you know what you are doing but it may be worth checking the following:
The desk requires a power supply feed from the dimmer. This is fed back along the control cable (on pin 7 of the 8-pib DIN connector). This is usually +20V. If the Level 12 has come from an installation that uses e.g. Strand dimmers which use negative voltage signalling, it may have had an inverter kit fitted in which case it will require a -20V supply.
The Betapacks can be set to provide either +20V or -20V. In the Betapack1 this is a link on the PCB behind the back cover. For a Betapack2 this is a small switch on the front of the dimmer next to the 8-pin DIN socket (maybe behind a grey panel fixed with a screw). Manuals for both products are still available from the Zero88 website.
In both cases there will be an LED on the front of the dimmer. If it is red then the dimmer is supplying +20V. If it is green then -20V. Check your Betapack1 and Betapack2 are showing the same colour - you should do this by turning on the dimmers _without_ the control cables connected.
You should then connect the control cable from say you Betapack1 dimmer to the desk (say Ch1-6). Turn on the dimmer and see if the LED on the front of the Level 12 comes on. Repeat this with only the Betapack2. Then again with the control cable plugged into Ch7-12 of the Level 12. Repeat with the Betapack1.
If in any of the combinations above the desk LED does not light, then the dimmer is providing the wrong polarity of voltage. Move the link or flick the switch on the dimmer as I have indicated above.
If the Level 12 has an inverter module fitted to only one set of channels then it may be that you have to set one of your dimmers to +20V and one to -20V. Note that the desk is then using +10V signalling on one set and -10V on the other set. However both types of Betapack will autosense the control voltage polarity from the desk and work automatically.
If you do ascertain that the Level 12 does have an inverter module then any user of the desk/dimmer combination will need to make sure they always connect the dimmers to the desk in the correct association. Alternatively you could remove the inverter kit, set both dimmers to +20V and plug and play any way round you want.
Hope this helps.
SubMasters On Frog
in Frog Range MK1
Posted
I've just had a play with the desk (s/w v10.12) and you don't need to program the memories. Just set the fixture dimmer at 100%, select Submasters screen, select the required submaster and click Program. The Fixtures library already contains a single dimmer fixture under <CONVENTIONALS> DIMMER, so this can be used to assign to fixtures the extra number of generic channels required.