Flash on Fadeout Problem

[Veit0r]

Hi,

I already did a post on reddit but it didnt get me any further... I have the problem that my LED fixtures (in this case some ROXX eShow TW+ and SGM P5s) switch back to RGB Values 255,255,255 when the trigger release threshold is triggered. You can see it in the Video attached to the reddit post.

I recreated the whole thing in PhantomZerOS and brought it down to a simple one fixture, one cue setup after a factory default but cant still fade a color cue out without a flash to white at the end.

I reset the desk completely to factory defaults.

one fixture, one cue with color red.

cue fade times (the play/pause button) are all set to zero.

global fade times and defaults are also on zero (setup->defaults->default cue times)

I set the home and default values of the one fixture to color 0,0,0 (selecting the channel/fixture set the three color rotaries to 0, make sure they're highlighted blue->Update->home with bulp icon->home and then the same with default.

Still, my created cue (or a new one based on the set defaults) with just the color red works and goes to 255,255,255 when it reaches the trigger/release level. I can see it in the DMX Output window by pressing Z Button.

If I got it right, if those were the defaults, they would show up in yellow in the output, but they're shown blue.

Where do those values come from?

I also tried editing the default values via the fixture editor on the console, also without the desired effect.

I just want to fade simple color cues with different faders without any flash(fast or slow) to white below trigger/release level.

Setting the trigger/release to 0 doesnmt work either.

Please help! I went through the documentation, videos and reddit. I spend many hours, what am I doing wrong here with such a simple cue?

 

[kgallen]

(For background for other experienced users/contributors on here, I’ve tried to help out with this one on Reddit and it seems the issue still exists - any other ideas/what did I forget etc, thanks!).

@Veit0r if you could save your showfile and upload it here we can try and debug on our own desks and try our best to understand what’s going on and get you a solution - as you showed on Reddit this can be seen in the output screen as DMX values actually going out to the fixture. Thanks for posting on here (and in the correct sub forum!) where we’ve a chance of reproducing the problem. 

[Veit0r]

Hi, thanks for your attempts and quick answers

attached the showfile.

On Playback fader 13 there is one cue. If you raise it, and lower it again, you can see channels 4 and 5 going to 255.

raiseandlowerplayback13.zos

[kgallen]

Thanks @Veit0r I’ll try and take a look tonight.

[Davidmk]

Default to white issue, done to death in this thread.

 

 

[kgallen]

Thanks @Davidmk. I’m home very late due to needing to take a 60+ mile detour to get home (don’t ask… Highways Agency, I mean you…). I’ve read the whole of that other thread again. Wow, that was a corker, I seem to have blanked that one out!

In the Reddit discussion, for me it comes down to default of white maybe with a bit of release on lower config thrown in to confuse things more. @Veit0r sorry it will be tomorrow earliest before I can take a look on my FLX (at least you have an FLX S unlike on the other thread). In the meantime if you’re able to try out some of especially @Davidmk‘s suggestions hopefully you will beat me to a solution…

[kgallen]

@Veit0r can you try this showfile please.

I just reprogrammed the default for that fixture to R=G=B=0 (Process: Clear-Clear, select the fixture, make R=G=B=0, tap RECORD, turn off SmartTag, tap HOME, select Default).

If I play on PhantomZerOS, whereas with your showfile I see the G and B flick to 255 in the DMX window when lowering the fader, this doesn't happen with the showfile attached below.

raiseandlowerplayback13mk2.zos

Regards,

Kevin

[Veit0r]

Hm.. okay!

I just tried it in phantom, I think the one thing I didnt get was: when selecting the colors & intensity for the default value the buttons have to be black not blue. This feels very unintuitive for me. However after changing the values and "deselecting" them before recording to the default via home button my first test playback works as I expect. The bad thing is, I cant get another color playback to work.. it simply ignores my settings and does nothing.

I'll play around and let you know.

I swear, i tried the

Quote

(Process: Clear-Clear, select the fixture, make R=G=B=0, tap RECORD, turn off SmartTag, tap HOME, select Default)

process at least 5 times and it worked on the last attempt when tapping the values to black background.

I will start from scratch again with the file I sent to really understand it. Thanks for your help already!

[kgallen]

@Veit0r when adjusting values you want the background of the field above the encoder wheel to be blue not black. Blue means the parameter is tagged. This is the information the console uses to know what to record - it records tagged values. 

If you click the field to make it have a black background you untag it. The console will then not record the change.

Also in the case of reprogramming the default I turn off SmartTag. This is because I wanted to reprogram the RGB default values whilst I had the intensity at zero (and not tagged). SmartTag will only record intensity (at zero) if intensity is zero, it won’t record other tagged parameters (this is related to allowing Move On Dark to work).

Hope that clarifies things and you can now have more success with your programming!

https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/controlling-fixtures/tagging
 

[Veit0r]

Okay, I think i'm able to do it now. To be honest, its not clear to me why I have to disable smart tag before recording the new default. Move on dark was completely ignored from me because... no stepper motors
The real blocker while all the testing was: I had the "Show Record & Update Window" set to External display, but closed the external display view since the real console has no display output. So I never saw the SmartTag Setting and had to google after you mentioned it how to get it.

I just made the defaults in the "real" file for all the fixtures and reenabled the SmartTag again to be able to "easily" create new cues without having to tag all the channels.
I will try it on real hardware as soon as possible and let you (and reddit) know.

Thanks again!

PS: The SmartTag topic just unlocked some SGM Pilot3000 memories in my mind...

[kgallen]

8 hours ago, Veit0r said:

To be honest, its not clear to me why I have to disable smart tag before recording the new default. Move on dark was completely ignored from me because... no stepper motors

When you turn SmartTag off you are taking complete control of what parameters are tagged and thus recorded. In this case I’m selecting the fixture, modifying the colour attributes (which tags them - makes the background ‘blue’), then when I RECORD I turn off SmartTag which says ‘hey console I’m in charge I just want you to record the colour attributes I changed and nothing else, just do as I say and nothing more’. In the example of reprogramming defaults I agree it’s nothing to do with e.g. move on dark (this is just one example of where SmartTag usually helps the programmer), just by turning it off I’m in explicit control of what is recorded (and also In this case intensity was zero so SmartTag would have caused my colour parameters changes to be ignored).

Note that the colour attribute is by default set as ‘not separate’ (changeable in Setup). This means that if you adjust one colour parameter e.g. red, all of the colour parameters are tagged as it’s assumed that you want to create a certain colour and this requires all colour emitters to be recorded to recreate that. If you really only wanted to record the red emitter you would need to manually untag the blue, green, amber, colour wheel etc parameters (to make their background ‘black’) so they weren’t recorded. When played back, only the red emitter would be controlled, the blue, green etc would stay as they were. This is very powerful but can also be very confusing for inexperienced/basic users. Note that beamshape parameters default to ‘separate’ as it’s assumed that if you were changing e.g. the zoom you didn’t also want to record e.g. the gobo.

Some advanced programmers have SmartTag turned off permanently as they always want explicit control of what is recorded via tagging, especially if they are setting up a range of ‘partial looks’ on playbacks/submasters that they’ll use to busk with. If you’re programming a theatre stack then for many ‘normal’ users (myself included) SmartTag is usually on. 

Note also when looking at your showfile I did it in PhantomZerOS which I started in FLX mode (not FLX S mode as your actual hardware). This gives me access to some more features, like the Source screen. This allowed me to see (but we already ‘knew’) that your fixture was controlled by ‘Default’ as the fader was lowered. I selected the fixture so I could see the parameters details, then on the Source screen I saw the colour parameters change to ‘D’ (and also saw the flick of B=G=255 in the DMX window) as I lowered the fader. Aha! Default is white (as we expected) and causing that flick in colour as you first reported. Reprogramming the default to R=G=B=0 was easy after that. 
 

Happy programming - let us know how you get on and any other questions and we’ll try to help. 

[Davidmk]

Smart tag... Great at what it's meant for (recording cues in a stack for playback "on the button") confusing and a nuisance under other circumstances, especially for setting up a desk for busking (IMHO). Tracking similar.

Default values, again great at making sure something happens when you raise intensity but default colour of white seems to throw a lot of people. Personally, I set R=G=B=0 as default for all RGB fixtures as a matter of course (and then get confused when I raise intensity and get full on black before remembering that was what I asked for 😁).

Whilst having a mini rant... social media may not be the best place to look for help @kgallen and I and a few others watch this forum regularly and there's a lot of expertise here.