Cameo FlatPro 7 control failing (randomly?)

[Kauz]

Several meters behind the DMX output of our new FLX S48 I have 10 Cameo FlatPro 7 in the DMX chain. Sometimes I can't control them any more untill I reboot the FLS S48. All DMX nodes behind the Cameo's are still responsive in these cases. Therefore this does rather not look like a physical issue to me. A termination resistor is in place. With a previous (Strand) lighting console we did not experience this problem.

The Cameos are patched as RGBWA LED devices. Most of the remaining fixtures are dimmers.

Any ideas what could be wrong? I am new to FLX S, i. e. I might be doing something wrong with console operation. However, why is the problem limited to the Cameos? Is it possible that the FLX-S's DMX signal timing is a bit challenging for them?

[Davidmk]

I confess I've never had this issue with a desk although I have had less than perfect control due to issues with fixtures, dmx splitters, termination and the fixtures themselves. However your logic (that the fixtures don't cope with the signal they are getting) does have merit.

I expect someone from Z88 will be along in a bit but, in the meantime, perhaps I could refer you to this bit of the manual which says...

"You can also change the Transmission between Continuous or Delta. Continuous transmission will result in DMX data being sent at a steady refresh rate, and is the default option. FLX consoles transmit at 33Hz, and FLX S consoles transmit at 29Hz.

Changing the Transmission to Delta, will result in the console sending DMX "updates". This means DMX frames will be sent whenever there are level changes on the console. If you are controlling a fixture that doesn't seem to be responding correctly, change the Transmission to see if the fixture prefers the change in frame rate. If it does, your fixture is not truly DMX."

Another thing to check is that the DMX addresses do not overlap. If these fixtures have a number of modes then remember to allow for this and make sure they are patched in the correct mode as well. (The desk should not let you patch them overlapped but if it thinks they have less channels than they actually have it could happen.)

10 hours ago, Kauz said:

Sometimes I can't control them any more untill I reboot the FLS S48.

Can you expand on this? For example, if you try to change their state do they just remain the same or do they just go off or do they, perhaps start doing things you don't  expect? Also, if you set up a state and leave it, does the problem still happen or does it happen only when you tell them to do something different?

[kgallen]

On top of what @Davidmk says, it might also be worth disabling RigSync in Setup to see if that stabilises things.

[Davidmk]

11 minutes ago, kgallen said:

it might also be worth disabling RigSync

Gosh yes, meant to say that as well, thanks for the reminder @kgallen

I've been looking for information on the fixtures. Two points...

1. Are there multiple models of this fixture? I've found one with a suffix of "g2" and one without. If this is the case, what are these fixtures patched as?
2. The g2 manual I've been looking at mentions a feature called "DMX Delay". Something to do with creating chases when the desk doesn't have the facility to do it. Could this be involved somehow?

[Kauz]

Davidmk,

kgallen,

thanks for your immediate responses! Please find additional details below.

* RigSync has been de-activated in the very beginning (yes, it was causing serious and very visible trouble with the Cameos before)

* Yes, there seem to be mutiple models / generations(?) of FlatPro 7 and I was not able to find the manual to our ones. They are some years old already. Anyway, they worked fluelessly with the Strand console before. By the way: Today they worked all day without problems. Hmh. 

* I will give the DMX "delta" configuration a try, although I am a bit afraid if this will always work reliably.

[Davidmk]

1 hour ago, Kauz said:

I will give the DMX "delta" configuration a try

I was more concerned that this could cause problems if it was engaged. If it was me I'd be trying to take it out of the equation, possibly by choosing a mode where it is disabled.

1 hour ago, Kauz said:

there seem to be mutiple models / generations(?) of FlatPro 7 and I was not able to find the manual to our ones

Now this might be a clue. It is absolutely critical that the profile and mode exactly matches the fixture and mode it is in. Otherwise you could getting on fine, add UV to you colour mix and be totally surprised when the fixture starts strobing - or something equally weird.

On the other hand...

2 hours ago, Kauz said:

Today they worked all day without problems.

This might mean the issue is not the DMX signal leaving the desk or the profile/mode you have patched at all - a dodgy DMX cable or connector could be to blame.

If it isn't that then we are back to the patch being wrong.

if you haven't already, then check the fixtures labels carefully to see if it has any model information you can use to find the right manual.

19 hours ago, Kauz said:

With a previous (Strand) lighting console we did not experience this problem

If you still have the Strand desk, it might be worth powering that up and checking what these fixtures were patched as, particularly, how many channels they used. If it has a display of DMX outputs you might be able to work out which channel equates to which parameter as well.

Here's another trick you might use if you are not sure about the profile. Save your show first, you'll need to put it back after.

Clear everything (see clear options in the manual). Turn RDM off.

Take one of your fixtures and find it's DMX address, connect it directly to the back of the desk with a short DMX cable, put a terminator in and connect power.

Patch some dimmers (more than you think your fixture has channels - at a guess 30 would be more than enough) starting at the address of your test fixture.

Make sure the desk is in channel mode.

What you should have now is a fader for each of the fixtures channels so, by pushing the faders up, you can see what each channel does and whether it matches one of the modes in your manual.

It's a bit tedious and with some parameters (that DMX delay for example) it might be hard to discern the change but it should give you some idea. Remember that the dimmer channel and at least one colour channel need to be up for there to be any visual output so you might have to try various combinations of faders until you get something you can see. If your fixture has any 16bit controls then they will be controlled by a pair of adjacent faders with one having a big effect and the other a small one. Obviously the excess channels should do nothing but the last channel that does something visible might not be the last in that mode so be careful about that.

Hopefully you will be able to find a manual where one mode matches the channels you've found and any you couldn't work out are explained. You can then reload your saved show and patch that profile/mode and try that.

Apologies if any of the above seems to be stating the obvious - clearly I don't know your level of experience so I've aimed pretty low

PS Very early in my career I used Strand equipment, of course it was still resistance dimmers then and I was gobsmacked by the Mini-2 when it came out. I discovered the Z88 Sirius later so, while I still have nostalgia for the old (Strand) days, I wouldn't want to go back to them. I mean, nostalgia's alright but it's not what it was

 

[DALX]

What addresses are the fixtures set to ? There is a topic that recommends patching fixtures above DMX250 if there is timing issues.

[kgallen]

6 hours ago, DALX said:

What addresses are the fixtures set to ? There is a topic that recommends patching fixtures above DMX250 if there is timing issues.

This is if RDM is on (and desired on) but you have some fixtures that misbehave - because they don’t decode the DMX start code as they should and read RDM packets as if they are DMX packets.

Hopefully that is ruled out here as RigSync (AKA RDM) is turned off.

[Kauz]

Today I spent one more day in theatre without experiencing any problems with the Cameos. I am not aware of having changed anything relevant. For now the problem has escaped without explanation.

Thank you so far for your support. I will post here in case the problem occurrs again,

[Ed75]

Sure you didn't place any odd potentially disturbing items next to your dmx cables, desk connectors ,  or the fixtures? 

I remember having some similar trouble a few years ago. We were using model trains in our scenery. Very nice gimmick, controlled them with dmx too. Nice little project. moving heads followspotting the trains and so on. 😎

But in the build-trial-and-error period, I had dmx hiccups, and it appeared to be one of the trains passing a spot where one of the dmx connectors to my fixtures was placed too close to the rails.......

In this case it were also a few fixtures acting funny, the dimmers and some other fixtures acted normal.

Sometimes it can be simple....