How to: movers swing in a "momentum knock on"

[kgallen]

Sorry the title is terrible...

If I had say 5 movers in a line on a (backlight) bar, what would be the easiest way to implement a move sequence, where the movers look like they are "knocking" each other on in a swing. I'm thinking this may be to use the horizontal line effect with an offset?

• movers start pointing in to centre stage
• outer most movers swing out to their respective stage sides
• outer most mover on one side swings back in towards centre stage, then as it "hits" the next beam that starts swinging out until it "hits" the next and this ripples on
• not all "momentum" is "transferred" when the beams "hit" so the striking beam can "bounce back" and start swinging in the other direction

Exact details aren't critical (as in I don't want to spend hours manually creating a sequence) but basically a swinging motion on all movers where they look like they "bump" into each other and "trigger" the next one along. Maybe "Dodgems" would be a better description!

Thanks for any tips!

[Edward Z88]

Hi @kgallen

13 hours ago, kgallen said:

If I had say 5 movers in a line on a (backlight) bar, what would be the easiest way to implement a move sequence, where the movers look like they are "knocking" each other on in a swing. I'm thinking this may be to use the horizontal line effect with an offset?

Yes - the easiest way to do this would be to use Effect 20 [Horiz. line].

Firstly, position the fixtures where you want them. The Tilt value will not be affected by the Horizontal Line effect. The Pan value will be used as the midpoint for the Horizontal Line effect. If the fixtures have Zoom, you may want to get this set now, to help you work out how much offset you'll need to achieve the "knock on" effect.

Then apply Effect 20. It will begin to run with its "automatic offset". Then, set the Size of the effect, to define how wide the fixtures swing. You can then set the Speed. Once set, you can then fine-tune the Offset. You will probably find that the "Forward Offset" and "Backward Offset" buttons give too much of an Offset for the effect you are after. If so, you can tap "No Offset", then hold SHIFT and dial Offset until you start to get the offset you're after. Once you have tweaked the Speed, Size and Offset, tap RECORD, and tap an empty effect palette. Don't forget - by default the effect palette will not include the fixture's positions.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get on.

Edward

[kgallen]

1 hour ago, Edward Z88 said:

Yes - the easiest way to do this would be to use Effect 20 [Horiz. line].

Firstly, position the fixtures where you want them. The Tilt value will not be affected by the Horizontal Line effect. The Pan value will be used as the midpoint for the Horizontal Line effect. If the fixtures have Zoom, you may want to get this set now, to help you work out how much offset you'll need to achieve the "knock on" effect.

Then apply Effect 20. It will begin to run with its "automatic offset". Then, set the Size of the effect, to define how wide the fixtures swing. You can then set the Speed. Once set, you can then fine-tune the Offset. You will probably find that the "Forward Offset" and "Backward Offset" buttons give too much of an Offset for the effect you are after. If so, you can tap "No Offset", then hold SHIFT and dial Offset until you start to get the offset you're after. Once you have tweaked the Speed, Size and Offset, tap RECORD, and tap an empty effect palette. Don't forget - by default the effect palette will not include the fixture's positions.

Fantastic Edward - all the info I need to know. Yes the fixtures have zoom so I'll take your advice. Thanks also for the info on recording the palette (that question was in my mind) - but you confirm it's as I expected - also noting that the effect runs "around" the initial position, which is great because I'll want to tilt up a little, set the zoom etc and then overlay the effect based on horiz line.

One follow on question, once the effect based on horiz line is running, would I then be able to layer on top, a little bit of (say) circle in order to get the fixtures swinging downstage a little so the movement is "2D" rather than "1D"? I'm pretty sure I can do this and the Effect button will cycle me around the "overall" then separate e.g. speed parameters for horiz and circle. Instead of circle, maybe a little vertical line, because it's operating on top of horiz line will be a little easier to contain? What do you think?

I'm hoping that in the next week or so I will be able to set up a few movers (at home) and have a play with this and see how incapable I can be! (7.13 is on my FLX...)

Much appreciated you taking the time to reply as I believe you're busy at PLASA!

Regards, Kevin

[Edward Z88]

Hi Kevin,

1 hour ago, kgallen said:

One follow on question, once the effect based on horiz line is running, would I then be able to layer on top, a little bit of (say) circle in order to get the fixtures swinging downstage a little so the movement is "2D" rather than "1D"? I'm pretty sure I can do this and the Effect button will cycle me around the "overall" then separate e.g. speed parameters for horiz and circle. Instead of circle, maybe a little vertical line, because it's operating on top of horiz line will be a little easier to contain? What do you think?

Good question. It is not possible to have multiple movement effects running on the same fixture at once. This is because movement effects cannot be layered - you will find if you choose a new movement effect, it stops the previous movement effect. However, the behaviour you describe is correct when layering a movement effect with a colour effect for example.

However, if you want your Horizontal Line, but with a bit of depth, you could have a play with the Effect "Rotation" parameter. A Horizontal Line effect with a 90 degree rotation, would give you a Vertical Line effect. Therefore, if you run a Horizontal Line effect, with say 20 degrees of rotation, this would give you a touch of tilt movement too.

1 hour ago, kgallen said:

I'm hoping that in the next week or so I will be able to set up a few movers (at home) and have a play with this and see how incapable I can be! (7.13 is on my FLX...)

If you want to play with this without fixtures connected, fixtures 1 Thru 10 in the demo Capture file are rigged on an upstage bar from Stage Right to Stage Left. These may therefore be useful to play with...

https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/networking/connecting-to-capture

1 hour ago, kgallen said:

Much appreciated you taking the time to reply as I believe you're busy at PLASA!

I returned from PLASA yesterday evening, so back to business as usual!

If you have any questions, just let me know.

Edward

[kgallen]

HI Edward,

Ah PLASA is done, after posting my reply I then feared I was denying you of your brief lunch spent instead answering my petty questions! Phew!

21 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:

Good question. It is not possible to have multiple movement effects running on the same fixture at once. This is because movement effects cannot be layered - you will find if you choose a new movement effect, it stops the previous movement effect. However, the behaviour you describe is correct when layering a movement effect with a colour effect for example.

However, if you want your Horizontal Line, but with a bit of depth, you could have a play with the Effect "Rotation" parameter. A Horizontal Line effect with a 90 degree rotation, would give you a Vertical Line effect. Therefore, if you run a Horizontal Line effect, with say 20 degrees of rotation, this would give you a touch of tilt movement too.

OK my bad, thanks for correcting me! Layering different attributes must have been what I've done before or maybe I was playing with the FLX effects engine... anyway your counter suggestion sounds good, thanks for pointing that out!

21 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:

If you want to play with this without fixtures connected, fixtures 1 Thru 10 in the demo Capture file are rigged on an upstage bar from Stage Right to Stage Left. These may therefore be useful to play with...

https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/networking/connecting-to-capture

Good idea! Although as I own a Capture license (2019 I think), then in theory I should be able to construct the relevant parts of my rig and try it for real - but using Dockhouse might be better to get me started - better lights and a larger stage! I must confess to struggling with using Capture a bit - not the FLX interface, just the software itself. I find it rather awkward and clunky to use when others seem to sing its praises. I need to persevere more. It would probably be more convenient to use it coupled to Phantom which I've not ever done, but of course this is the setup you use fir the training.

Thanks as ever for the prompt and comprehensive feedback, much appreciated. There will however be more daft questions in due course!

Cheers, Kevin

 

 

[Edward Z88]

Hi Kevin,

5 minutes ago, kgallen said:

I must confess to struggling with using Capture a bit - not the FLX interface, just the software itself. I find it rather awkward and clunky to use when others seem to sing its praises. I need to persevere more. It would probably be more convenient to use it coupled to Phantom which I've not ever done, but of course this is the setup you use fir the training.

As you may know, personally I get on really well with Capture. In case you haven't come across it, a playlist of Capture 2019 tutorials is available here...

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPyD1ylvBYvTTP8iSw9Ws7zbOTL3Ec79K

6 minutes ago, kgallen said:

Thanks as ever for the prompt and comprehensive feedback, much appreciated. There will however be more daft questions in due course!

No problem at all!

Edward

[kgallen]

13 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:

As you may know, personally I get on really well with Capture. In case you haven't come across it, a playlist of Capture 2019 tutorials is available here...

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPyD1ylvBYvTTP8iSw9Ws7zbOTL3Ec79K

Indeed - which is why I feel a bit stupid!

Aside from using Dockhouse have you actually built your own stage and rigs in Capture (application possibly outside of Z88)?

I have done some of these training videos (several times), but whilst useful for basic operation, I didn't feel they really dug in to setting up the stage space and creating a rig. It took me ages to set up my stage properly - like getting the proscenium arch in the right place. The definition of such things I find really confusing. For ages I wasn't getting any front light onto stage and this turned out to be that the "proscenium wall" was basically a black wall across the front of my stage - but I just couldn't see it! Also I find their "building block" resources are really limited - I can't build any sort of practical box set. My sets aren't built out of silver spheres and cylinders which is the sort of stuff they seem to have in their library! For rock bands and setups with truss all over the place it might be great (Dockhouse being an example) but for a typical theatre and play? Nah, I don't rate it...

I'll revisit these tutorials, but I'm suspecting I won't find anything new - especially as each year they bring out a "new version" that you can't move to without another hefty investment... (I bought Capture with my own money - something like £300 for the most basic license?).

Anyway, not really the right place to discuss 3rd party software!

Cheers, Kevin

[Edward Z88]

Hi Kevin,

30 minutes ago, kgallen said:

Aside from using Dockhouse have you actually built your own stage and rigs in Capture (application possibly outside of Z88)?

Yes - for our recent Trade Shows, I have created a "Trailer Stage" visualisation project from scratch, which uses a fully VL rig...

Edward

[kgallen]

No further questions, Your Honour! 😀

[Edward Z88]

8 minutes ago, kgallen said:

No further questions, Your Honour! 😀

Haha! There are other visualisation packages out there if Capture doesn't fit your way of working, however there aren't any I know well enough to be able to suggest at a similar price-point.

Edward

[kgallen]

4 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:

Haha! There are other visualisation packages out there if Capture doesn't fit your way of working, however there aren't any I know well enough to be able to suggest at a similar price-point.

Edward

I can't afford another one! Anyway Capture integrates properly with FLX (i.e. it's 'your' fault I bought it in the first place 🤣 )

(Also earlier my question about having built your own Capture reads aggressively - apologies I didn't mean it to scan like that, I was genuinely interested if you had built your own Capture shows for work or outside-of-work shows. Fortunately you don't take offence easily!!! Phew!)

[Edward Z88]

2 minutes ago, kgallen said:

I can't afford another one! Anyway Capture integrates properly with FLX (i.e. it's 'your' fault I bought it in the first place 🤣 )

OK fair enough, I'll take the blame for your frustrations 😆

The Capture team are great, so if you have any specific "how-to" questions, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to help.

Edward

[kgallen]

10 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:

The Capture team are great, so if you have any specific "how-to" questions, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to help.

Yea... I bashed heads with them a while back.... 🤪

[Davidmk]

As you are both talking about Capture...

My biggest problem with it is getting the desk to control the live view. Even though I've had it working when I shut down both desk and laptop overnight I have a Dickens of a job getting it going next day. there must be a right order to start Capture and the desk but whichever way I do it I seem to have to restart both of them a couple of times to get the link going.

Any suggestions?

[Edward Z88]

Hi David,

1 hour ago, Davidmk said:

My biggest problem with it is getting the desk to control the live view. Even though I've had it working when I shut down both desk and laptop overnight I have a Dickens of a job getting it going next day. there must be a right order to start Capture and the desk but whichever way I do it I seem to have to restart both of them a couple of times to get the link going.

Capture is pretty good at detecting incoming DMX data. There is not a certain order you need to start Capture and the console in. If you're having difficulty, there are a few things to try:

• Firstly, ensure Capture PLUS Capture Presentations have the necessary permissions to communicate through the Windows Firewall. You should have received this option upon running Capture for the first time.
• Secondly, you can force Capture to listen to a particular network interface. To do this go to Window -> Universes -> More -> Connectivity Options. In here, you can double click on the IP Address field for the protocol you are using, and force Capture to listen to a network interface, such as your Ethernet or Wi-Fi, rather than automatically detecting.
• Thirdly, if you have anti-virus software installed, either temporarily disable it, or try to stop the anti-virus software from analysing Capture communications. I have personally never had a problem with Windows Security anti-virus preventing communication with Capture.

If this still isn't helping, please let me know, and we can investigate further.

Edward

[Davidmk]

19 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:

force Capture to listen to a particular network interface

This could be what I want. I'm not consistent about which interface I use and the laptop is probably trying to use the same one as last time.

I'll give that a go first. Thanks.