kgallen
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Posts posted by kgallen
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10 hours ago, Jon Hole said:
This sounds like something that should go into the ZerOS request thread 🙂
I have asked before 😁. But you’re right it’s probably not on that list but you might find a ZOS for it already!
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Hi Edward,
Thanks for taking the time to reply late today, I’ll be having a play with this later.
So from your reply I’m guessing there is no easier way to tag all colour parameters than nudging every colour encoder - something like Shift+Colour or HOME which is a trick we use for REMOVE. I realise I can’t use HOME since that will not only tag all parameters but HOME them too!
Thanks again!
Kevin
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So we know that currently on ZerOS, if we programme a (colour) palette for light type "A" we can't apply it to light type "B".
What's the easiest/most reliable way to update a (user) type "A" colour palette so it can be applied to light type "B" when doing prep offsite - i.e. all of the fixtures to be used aren't rigged/attached/operational.
So I've devised and programmed some (LED) colours using light type "A". But there will be more (LED) fixtures of a different type (several types) that I'll also want to apply the "same" colour to - accepting it could be a different shade initially - until I actually have the lights rigged and I can see how they respond to the palette, when I can tweak it for those lights and UPDATE.
Assuming the lights are in the showfile patch (albeit not attached to DMX), how can I update the palette in this prep?
The only thing I can think of is:
- Select both type "A" and type "B" on the desk (and set non-zero intensity)
- Apply the colour palette (that will only currently work for type "A")
- "nudge" one of the colour encoders - will this cause the other RGBW values to snap onto the type "B" lights?
- UPDATE the colour palette (so it now has data for type "A" and type "B" lights)
The crux is step 3. What's the best thing to do here without having to redefine the entire colour "blind" for the type "B" fixtures?
The assumption is that the (colour) palette was defined on an RGBW device (say an LED mover) and will need to be applied to other comparable RGBW devices (say LED PARs).
Thanks!
Regards, Kevin
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(Broken out from another thread to avoid hijacking it - so this maybe read a bit disjointed, sorry!)
As another aside I was also using the Effects quite a bit and got to my requirements relatively quickly - both Position and Colour effects. One suggestion for a new one would be "Explosion" as a new Colour Effect - deep red baseline with whites flashing rapidly across the top (would work over a number of LED PARs for example). I will maybe persevere a little more with "Red Sparkle" but any suggestions to achieve that effect welcome!
I also used the (slightly quirky) guidelines in this thread to record some Effects palettes with EC or EB or ECB attributes 🙂
You'll also be pleased to hear I used the Waveform engine too - I wanted a blue/purple cross fade cycling and I actually managed to achieve this fairly quickly with a Blue base overlaying a Red sine. Whilst I happily understand sine functions and all the rest, this engine is still a little bit of "black magic" and "luck", it's not at all intuitive, particularly as there is no "waveform viewer" to understand how the waveforms. offsets and size are combined to generate the results. I acknowledge that the maths under the hood is being applied to spec, but the net result at the fixture is something of bemusement! Also that screen is extremely fiddly - the fields are so very small to get at with your finger...!
Regards, Kevin
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Hi Edward,
Thanks for the answers.
26 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:As @kgallen mentions, the accuracy of the colour filters ultimately comes down to the fixtures. We have done testing with both our Acclaim series (RGBL engine), and our Aurora/Cantata/Coda/Leko fixtures (RGBALC engine), which give good results.
But no fixtures with a (cool) white emitter? (Or is that the "C" on the Strand fixtures?)
26 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:I've personally not found the faders window to be too sensitive, however I do like the idea of being able to use the encoder wheels to adjust these faders. I have logged this suggestion, reference number ZOS-11157.
Maybe not the case on a large external screen, but on the internal screen if you get towards the end (like I was doing with the Sat fader), it jumps about like crazy with big changes in fixture response. It is a screen I've not used much before, but I've now got a new-found interest in it as it was very useful in the respect of adjusting "Sat" for example. The R/G/B can of course be set on the encoders, so the faders are of less concern. But it's good to have that screen.
(Broke out side-chatter to a separate thread to avoid hijacking this one more!).
Kevin
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I rigged my FLX 7.13 last night with some RGBW LED movers. I find the (Lee) swatch colours very pale as they seem to contain a lot of the white emitter - although I don’t know if this is different to before. For this show I used a Lee swatch book to pick a fair few colours but I’ve ended up mixing my own to get some saturation back, especially on the blues.
Side question - I used the colour faders screen quite a bit (like the Sat slider) - and it was very useful - but it’s very sensitive: can these controls be brought down onto the encoders?
Of course my fixtures aren’t colour calibrated as they are ‘cheap’ so by no means am I a reference here.
As prep I did a factory reset (7.13 on the desk) and then reloaded my fixture definitions and patched afresh.
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Hi Edward,
This ‘upgrade’ process - how does that relate to user fixture profiles implemented using the legacy Fixture Tool? If they’ve been implemented using the correct colour detail metadata will they work properly using 7.13 and the auto palettes, gel palettes, mood board and colour picker (talking full FLX here)? Hoping so, as you know I’ve written most of my own fixture profiles to ensure they are compatible with the firmware in my intelligent fixtures and I don’t want to go through a validation process of the ‘official’ library fixtures and nor do I want any RGBA/RGBW surprises (because for example the library only has the ‘wrong’ variant).
Thanks, Kevin
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Hi @Gerran and @Edward Z88
Thank you for your interesting questions and responses above.
Regarding ZOS-11120:
41 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:Thank you very much for the description of this behaviour. I have been able to replicate this issue, and can see that the colour temperature parameter of the first fixture in the selection occasionally does not change upon applying a filter. This issue is logged as reference number ZOS-11120 on our system, scheduled to be fixed in the next software update.
Edward, would you be able to elaborate on the conditions for this issue occurring and if there is a workaround when using 7.13. I have a large/complex show coming up in October so I would like to be up to speed with handling this.
Thanks, Kevin
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1 hour ago, SimonH said:
Can you tell me if the custom screen settings is on the list and where abouts roughly please? As far as usability for me this is the biggest hinderance during a plotting session.
Thanks
Maybe the "Custom Desktop Layouts on FLX / FLX S" option?
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Is the .15. part compatible with your mask setting? I guess you’ll need 255.255.0.0.
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Mostly FLX I believe. Any limitations are down to lack of processing power rather than a ‘license’ limitation is my understanding.
The only reference is possibly the online manual switched to ‘Solution’.
ETA: sorry the Solution had its own manual, not the ZerOS selectable one. Last update was 7.9.2 which is a while back now:
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10 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:
The Capture team are great, so if you have any specific "how-to" questions, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to help.
Yea... I bashed heads with them a while back.... 🤪
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4 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:
Haha! There are other visualisation packages out there if Capture doesn't fit your way of working, however there aren't any I know well enough to be able to suggest at a similar price-point.
Edward
I can't afford another one! Anyway Capture integrates properly with FLX (i.e. it's 'your' fault I bought it in the first place 🤣 )
(Also earlier my question about having built your own Capture reads aggressively - apologies I didn't mean it to scan like that, I was genuinely interested if you had built your own Capture shows for work or outside-of-work shows. Fortunately you don't take offence easily!!! Phew!)
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No further questions, Your Honour! 😀
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13 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:
As you may know, personally I get on really well with Capture. In case you haven't come across it, a playlist of Capture 2019 tutorials is available here...
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPyD1ylvBYvTTP8iSw9Ws7zbOTL3Ec79K
Indeed - which is why I feel a bit stupid!
Aside from using Dockhouse have you actually built your own stage and rigs in Capture (application possibly outside of Z88)?
I have done some of these training videos (several times), but whilst useful for basic operation, I didn't feel they really dug in to setting up the stage space and creating a rig. It took me ages to set up my stage properly - like getting the proscenium arch in the right place. The definition of such things I find really confusing. For ages I wasn't getting any front light onto stage and this turned out to be that the "proscenium wall" was basically a black wall across the front of my stage - but I just couldn't see it! Also I find their "building block" resources are really limited - I can't build any sort of practical box set. My sets aren't built out of silver spheres and cylinders which is the sort of stuff they seem to have in their library! For rock bands and setups with truss all over the place it might be great (Dockhouse being an example) but for a typical theatre and play? Nah, I don't rate it...
I'll revisit these tutorials, but I'm suspecting I won't find anything new - especially as each year they bring out a "new version" that you can't move to without another hefty investment... (I bought Capture with my own money - something like £300 for the most basic license?).
Anyway, not really the right place to discuss 3rd party software!
Cheers, Kevin
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HI Edward,
Ah PLASA is done, after posting my reply I then feared I was denying you of your brief lunch spent instead answering my petty questions! Phew!
21 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:Good question. It is not possible to have multiple movement effects running on the same fixture at once. This is because movement effects cannot be layered - you will find if you choose a new movement effect, it stops the previous movement effect. However, the behaviour you describe is correct when layering a movement effect with a colour effect for example.
However, if you want your Horizontal Line, but with a bit of depth, you could have a play with the Effect "Rotation" parameter. A Horizontal Line effect with a 90 degree rotation, would give you a Vertical Line effect. Therefore, if you run a Horizontal Line effect, with say 20 degrees of rotation, this would give you a touch of tilt movement too.
OK my bad, thanks for correcting me! Layering different attributes must have been what I've done before or maybe I was playing with the FLX effects engine... anyway your counter suggestion sounds good, thanks for pointing that out!
21 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:If you want to play with this without fixtures connected, fixtures 1 Thru 10 in the demo Capture file are rigged on an upstage bar from Stage Right to Stage Left. These may therefore be useful to play with...
https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/networking/connecting-to-capture
Good idea! Although as I own a Capture license (2019 I think), then in theory I should be able to construct the relevant parts of my rig and try it for real - but using Dockhouse might be better to get me started - better lights and a larger stage! I must confess to struggling with using Capture a bit - not the FLX interface, just the software itself. I find it rather awkward and clunky to use when others seem to sing its praises. I need to persevere more. It would probably be more convenient to use it coupled to Phantom which I've not ever done, but of course this is the setup you use fir the training.
Thanks as ever for the prompt and comprehensive feedback, much appreciated. There will however be more daft questions in due course!
Cheers, Kevin
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1 hour ago, Edward Z88 said:
Yes - the easiest way to do this would be to use Effect 20 [Horiz. line].
Firstly, position the fixtures where you want them. The Tilt value will not be affected by the Horizontal Line effect. The Pan value will be used as the midpoint for the Horizontal Line effect. If the fixtures have Zoom, you may want to get this set now, to help you work out how much offset you'll need to achieve the "knock on" effect.
Then apply Effect 20. It will begin to run with its "automatic offset". Then, set the Size of the effect, to define how wide the fixtures swing. You can then set the Speed. Once set, you can then fine-tune the Offset. You will probably find that the "Forward Offset" and "Backward Offset" buttons give too much of an Offset for the effect you are after. If so, you can tap "No Offset", then hold SHIFT and dial Offset until you start to get the offset you're after. Once you have tweaked the Speed, Size and Offset, tap RECORD, and tap an empty effect palette. Don't forget - by default the effect palette will not include the fixture's positions.
Fantastic Edward - all the info I need to know. Yes the fixtures have zoom so I'll take your advice. Thanks also for the info on recording the palette (that question was in my mind) - but you confirm it's as I expected - also noting that the effect runs "around" the initial position, which is great because I'll want to tilt up a little, set the zoom etc and then overlay the effect based on horiz line.
One follow on question, once the effect based on horiz line is running, would I then be able to layer on top, a little bit of (say) circle in order to get the fixtures swinging downstage a little so the movement is "2D" rather than "1D"? I'm pretty sure I can do this and the Effect button will cycle me around the "overall" then separate e.g. speed parameters for horiz and circle. Instead of circle, maybe a little vertical line, because it's operating on top of horiz line will be a little easier to contain? What do you think?
I'm hoping that in the next week or so I will be able to set up a few movers (at home) and have a play with this and see how incapable I can be! (7.13 is on my FLX...)
Much appreciated you taking the time to reply as I believe you're busy at PLASA!
Regards, Kevin
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On FLX you can set "Cue Only" in Setup and actually I believe you can switch between Tracking and Cue Only arbitrarily and your programming will stay intact. (This wasn't the case for example on Frog consoles using Full or Partial mode). What I can't say is whether or not the recorded data for your show has all the information required - i.e. if you switch to Cue Only you may still find your cues are missing the required lights, because they just weren't programmed regardless of Tracking or Cue Only.
However as someone who has also historically "struggled" with Tracking I would actually strongly discourage you from switching to Cue Only. Firstly it's worth confirming you have Smart Tag enabled in your Record Options. This pretty much makes Tracking work as Cue Only during a programming session, but you don't incur the downsides of using Cue Only which include completely breaking Move on Dark and inhibiting any kind of overlay - even something really simple like adding house lights, or firing a smoke machine from a UDK can cause havoc with your lighting state, because the intensity of all fixture will always be recorded.
When using Tracking the one thing to check when doing an Update during programming, is if you need to click for "Cue Only" rather than "Track Forwards" (which I think is the default.
TL;DR I'd strongly discourage you from switching to Cue Only - I don't think it will immediately solve your current issues and it imposes some real limitations on the power of the console. In my view, Tracking is implemented well on FLX and I feel very comfortable using it always. This certainly wasn't the case with previous consoles I've used.
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Sorry the title is terrible...
If I had say 5 movers in a line on a (backlight) bar, what would be the easiest way to implement a move sequence, where the movers look like they are "knocking" each other on in a swing. I'm thinking this may be to use the horizontal line effect with an offset?
- movers start pointing in to centre stage
- outer most movers swing out to their respective stage sides
- outer most mover on one side swings back in towards centre stage, then as it "hits" the next beam that starts swinging out until it "hits" the next and this ripples on
- not all "momentum" is "transferred" when the beams "hit" so the striking beam can "bounce back" and start swinging in the other direction
Exact details aren't critical (as in I don't want to spend hours manually creating a sequence) but basically a swinging motion on all movers where they look like they "bump" into each other and "trigger" the next one along. Maybe "Dodgems" would be a better description!
Thanks for any tips!
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Oh right… the 7.13 update video is on the Varilite YouTube channel, not the Zero88 one - explains why I couldn’t find it.
Some cross linking required if this is a permanent change of clothes?
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46 minutes ago, Jon Hole said:
What would you be looking for?
Hi Jon,
It's quite likely the current Auto Effects library will have what I need - once I've worked out how to tweak them to my needs. The additions you made a couple of ZerOS back were very useful, I was just curious if you'd had more ideas/requests and were building more options in.
I'll ask in a new/separate thread how you guys might suggest I build a certain effect (with LED movers).
Thanks!
Kevin
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Of course we're forever ungrateful and are intrigued what is being worked on for 7.14 (or beyond)! 😀
Possibly the wrong thread to ask in but I'm interested if there is anything upcoming for the (FLX) Effects Engine or it you might add more preset effects to the library (I'm not sure if you can add these via a library update or if it would require a new ZerOS release). My next show in October will require me to us a lot more movement and colour effects (I realise there won't be a new ZerOS before then!).
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Great work guys (and gals)!
Good also that you're consistently flagging these releases on blue-room.org.uk 👍
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You’re pretty experienced so I guess you’ve tried Setup+Button ?
Cloning a colour palette/colour onto other lights (LEDs)
in FLX
Posted
Hi Edward,
From how you word this above I'm concluding that tagging is not enough to get the data onto the type "B" fixtures, it really is necessary to nudge each colour to make the absolute values snap onto all selected fixtures?
Thanks! Kevin