iank99
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Posts posted by iank99
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@keredyelesobthat's "typical" behaviour with a failed fader by the sounds of it - the PCB will need to be put in close proximity with a soldering iron and replacement fader. If you're confident with an iron - you can do it yourself or @KWR88 could recommend a service centre close to you
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On 11/9/2021 at 2:08 PM, keredyelesob said:
Thanks Keith
The faulty desk is currently out onsite but I will try your suggestions above and let you know the outcome when i get it back.
Regarding cleaning the fader is it more likely to be fader 5 that is the culprit V fader 19. or should I hang on to do the diagnostics?
Thanks
From experience - it might be some dirt on each so a wee squirt of Servisol Super 10 on each won't go amiss then "work" the fader for a couple of strokes to move the dirt off the mucky spot.
Switch cleaner is ok to use but the usual caveats apply - don't use one that leaves a film (so NOT WD40!!!!) and a squirt is of duration less than it takes you to count "one" - any more is wasted. -
6 hours ago, Tony_-_-_ said:
I was just wondering if you could help me, I have recently been employed by a school where they have a new lighting system (Jester ML24) which they have never used but it is already wired in and ready to go before I got there, however, I'm not too familiar with setting these things up and none of the faders makes the lights come on but everything looks ready however I'm pretty sure the lights aren't assigned.
My question is will I have to programme the lights into the desk to make the desk work with the lights? and if so how is this done?
p.s I have no clue about lighting
Thanks in advance
@Tony_-_-_ Sorry to hear you've been dropped in it... We had similar with a school that we supplied when I worked with CTS - it turns out the technician that specified the kit initially had left the school, reset everything to default and took any notes with him which was sad because of the patching that the dimmers & fixtures had because of the school halls layout.
As Jon says - it's certainly worth contacting the original supplier, they might well have matching notes/patches for your installation however don't hold your breath on this (again from experience). Best to start gathering information now (pictures help a lot too!) of the dimmers in use, what the lights are (are they conventional i.e. lamps or LED's) and do you have any overly sized units (moving heads).
It might also help to give an indication of where you are - there plenty of regular contributors here who might turn out to be "local" to you and happy to come help out for a cuppa or a small fee
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There isn't a program in the Zero88 software stable but any "visualiser" program would do the job I suspect, they take DMX from the desk and display a representation of the scene's you're building.
However....
The visualisers aren't cheap, they don't work "out of the box" - they do need a lot of setting up i.e you need to declare the fixtures/luminaires you're using, where they're located in the performance (height, angle of throw, field angle of the fixture) and setup attribute definitions and DMX addresses. I suspect given that you're asking about an ML24 yours will be a relatively small rig so you might not get the value out of the visualiser that a full size concert designer would?
If you're regularly going to light in spaces that you don't have access to before your show arrives - there might be some benefit to a visualiser but I personally have doubts about that.
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Sorry, I can't help either - I've just looked through my library and I don't have even an old copy (I think I presumed that software would always be on the website). I've looked in the Solution section too and there's nothing there - the download link takes you to the FLX section.
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2 minutes ago, kgallen said:
Hey... I want an Alcora Mk1 picture!
With analogue output kit fitted 😛
...my first own-purchase Zero88 product. The first time we ever got a bonus from work and I blew the lot on an Alcora Mk1 with analogue kit. Bought (new) from @iank99 at CTS in July 2000 😀. The Alcora had only been out a couple of months (so forgive me if it was 1999 not 2000, but I think it was 2000). I still have the CTS receipt on yellow carbon-copy fan-fold paper 🤩.
I bet @iank99 has some stories there!
Oddly - there are more pictures around of "complete" Mk 1's than the Mk 2... I have a couple of analogue output boards too if you know someone wants one
And stories... owh yes - dozens - nearly all of them un-shareable in the public domain. -
Thanks for that - on a side note - the Alcora picture on that page isn't the correct picture...
The timer knobs were dark grey to match the fader caps - the knobs on the one in the picture are from a Sirius... But then we're all "guilty" - I've just noticed that the image I use on my website has a Sirius fader cap & Frog timer caps
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1 minute ago, Edward Z88 said:
All information from the knowledge base articles, now fit into the relevant section of the ZerOS Online Manual...
https://zero88.com/manuals/zeros
The support.zero88.com has now been retired.
@Edward Z88I can see how that works for FLX & ZerOS but where do the older articles referring to "legacy" products now reside? I've just had a quick look at the manuals page and can't see any links to Frog/Fat Frog (for example) and there are many still in use & being traded second hand - but often the manuals have been lost/discarded.
That was the beauty of the old knowledgebase - it acted as a repository for such information i.e changing your Jester Battery, Alcora Mk 2 manuals. The kit is still out there being used & traded because it's so darn sturdy (as we all know) - it would be nice to show some "love" by letting folks getting the info they need to use it?
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1 hour ago, Uriahdemon said:
Morning all. Looking to use another external monitor (perhaps using a laptop) with my desk (FLX). Unfortunately the link is now dead...... Is anyone aware of a new/updated one please.....??
In the meantime - the Wayback Machine comes to the rescue!
Wayback Web Archive -
@kgallenJust had a quick womble myself and it looks like the "micro site" used for the knowledgebase has been deleted from the sub domain support.zero88.com - the domain can be accessed but it's blank.
It's very likely therefore (assuming no one did a FB & didn't take regular backups) that restoring a backup should fix the issue in the interim. -
Awwwwww - sad day that Solution has become a "legacy" product
However, it's not surprising having proved so durable and flexible in the development of ZerOS but it's hardware limitations (mostly the front panel layout) do mean it's earned a place in the history books alongside Sirius as FLX "comes of age" and carries ZerOS forward.
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@Dave - the Fat Frog was an innovation in it's day - the previous Zero offering of the Sirius 250/500 could handle fixtures but it was physically a beast to carry around. I lit a few events with it and it was my personal choice but the Frog bought a level of portability and ease of use that the only other offering - the Pulsar Masterpiece didn't offer. Strand had GeniusPro on the 400/500 series platform but controlling fixtures was an expensive "add on" - can you believe that?
However because of it's age - it does suffer from the thinking of the time where moving fixtures were expensive parts of a rig and colour changing was scrollers not LED's. It did evolve in to the Leapfrog/ZerOS era which as a platform facilitated control over more fixtures, easier control & setup too.
If you're looking for longterm and need to control lots of fixtures then perhaps start saving for an FLX or a used Orb XF - just as portable as your Frog but infinitely more powerful and adept at being creative with fixtures. -
1 hour ago, iamcyclops said:
Ian. Just want to thak you for all your advise. I tried everything, including the things you siggested and still... it just almost feels dead.
So rather than bring it in, i just decided that this one can remain as spares for my other two.
I got plenty of bits now for bot my Frog and Leap Frog...
I'll leave it at that rather than spend more money.
So thanks again for all your help.
Liam
Not a problem - happy to help...
Things to hold on to - fader caps and fader boards plus the board with the LCD display (I'm not sure but I think the LCD can be re-used on Leap Frogs) and of course the PSU.
I've never had to replace metalwork so the rest of the case could be disposed of if you need the storage space - just put the PCB's in anti-static bags in a box with some silicon sachets (or at a push a spoon of rice).
If you need me in future - you know where to find me
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5 hours ago, Edward Z88 said:
Hi Ian,
Just double checked the dates for you - Frog and Fat Frog were launched in the first half of 2001, initially without an external monitor output. The external monitor output was added in November 2001, and the rest of the Frog range was launched in 2002.
Edward
Thanks Edward - at my tender age (as I cherish fond memories of "my" Strand MMS days) years do tend to blur.... It will happen to you one day as well
The "bookmark" I have in my memory is that I joined CTS in 1997 and we always dragged a Sirius to any "white glove/wet" hires then suddenly things got lighter as we bought one of the first Frogs (David H. was a firm believer that as a dealer we should have Zero desks in hire - he was never so keen on the Sirius 250 though - it was a beast to lift). I do remember Keith having our Frog back to fit the VGA option for us but he had to cut the metalwork himself (back in the days he was allowed to use sharp implements in the factory ).
Now... where did I leave my marbles (and my car keys)?
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15 hours ago, iamcyclops said:
The link you sent to the STMain2 looks like the card that's in my working Frog.
The broken one is different and is likely the STMain1 that you refered to
and it differs in a few ways from my working one.
The motherboard on the broken one is much longer than the working one
and also, the broken one doesn't have a monitor out as does my working one.
If there's no VGA output then it's one of the very first desks - the VGA option was added in around 1999 I think - it could be retrofitted but not done very often because the case metalwork had to be cut by hand. So your desk is the best part of 23 years old...
Fingers crossed that it still has some life left in it but being that old - it may have fallen foul of the most common fault - the STMain itself just fails. Try the ram sticks & floppy swap just in case but don't get too attached to it.
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13 hours ago, iamcyclops said:
Hi.
I recently bought a Frog desk but I can not get it to start up.
There are 2 removable cards next to each other. (this is different to my other Frog which only has 1 card)
These are held in by clips. I took them out to check and one had some slight corrosion.
I cleaned up and reset the cards.
Liam
@iamcyclops
You don't specify which Frog it is... Is it a Frog/Fat Frog or LeapFrog/Solution?If the "removable cards" are long and slender and about 4 inches long - it sounds like a Frog/Fat Frog with STMain 1 - I don't think STMain2 had two ram slots (it's been a while since I looked at the ones I have). If it's a LeapFrog and the cards are small squares about 2inch square then it won't boot with two cards anyway.
This link is to an image of an STMain2 Linky - does your mainboard look like that?
If it's a Frog/Fat Frog then I would try removing one of the RAM sticks then power the desk up and see what happens - from memory the early Frogs only need 4Mb of RAM which is one stick of memory. There's no benefit to be gained from adding extra memory (perhaps the seller thought he was doing you a favour) - it's also possible that the two sticks might be different sizes - the onboard bootstrap isn't like a PC so can't test/resize it's memory limits as they change. If you're lucky - there might be a meaningful label on the sticks that shows their capacity - fit the smallest one and try that.
Also - do you hear any noise from the floppy drive as the desk powers up (you should hear it motoring the head to Track zero)? If not, remove the floppy disc from the drive and see what happens. Early Frogs were very temperamental with floppy discs and sometimes won't read a disc that wasn't formatted on that drive... You could try a temporary drive swap from your existing desk?
You need to establish that the desk is booting and running before you do anything else - the mainboard might have failed (it does happen with STMains sadly) in which case that's a whole different can of worms.
Yes - I'm in Coventry - if you wanted to drop the desk over for me to have a quick look at - we can arrange something.
My eMail is ian@serviceguy.co.uk -
21 hours ago, KidNation said:
only issue is the price for me and only being 16 😅
Never say never - when I was your age - I was operating one of these - Strand Sunset and electronic control was a dream but 15 years it happened. Don't be in a rush - take it all in and enjoy yourself, if you're doing it "right" you'll end up with thousands of good memories.
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The Mainboard was common across the more recent LeapFrog/Solution series and the Frog 2 from memory (& probably the server boxes too). The connections are probably there for the Frog 2 which did support 4 universes.
The boards are soft configurable to the unit/chassis they're being mounted in to but I suspect that "flipping the switch" to make the board believe it's in a Frog 2 (which would be the only way to enable outputs 3 & 4) would cause issues as the software/hardware would then hang looking for the touchscreen and the display hardware to support it.
If you really need 4 universes then FLX would be a better way of doing it - more recent hardware design inside, better front panel features AND it still runs ZerOs so you won't need to relearn lots
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You're right to suspect the ambient temperature - chipsets do have optimum operating ranges which can cause flakiness if those ranges are exceeded, the chips in a desk might feel they're running "hot" but they might be not far off their maximum ambient. From experience there's enough margin in the limits to allow some very hot running but it's measured in hours not days... The case being "sealed" won't help either in extreme ambient conditions because of the lack of air movement.
The other consideration might be - what else is "sharing" the power circuits that your desk is connected to? Again, being hot weather - all the old desk fans and air coolers come out of the cupboard to keep the humans cool (along with the ice makers and ice cream fridges running harder in a venue) - they can generate transient RF spikes and induce spikes on the mains. The spikes won't cause major issues but if for any reason the mains earth becomes "not zero" briefly (and it sometimes can by a few volts) then this might cause the DMX transceiver in the desk to hiccup - they use mains earth as 0v or tech earth so a clean noise free earth is essential, sometimes a supplementary earth from the socket supplying the desk direct to the main earth point (either the gas or water main) will clear this sort of issue BUT until this becomes a major issue for you i.e. it happens more frequently then it's probably not worth worrying about for now.
I wouldn't worry yet but can an eye on it to see if it happens more often over the coming weeks - it will also then be easier to diagnose if it is a fault on the mainboard developing.
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It might be a "sizing" issue with the installer that can't read a 4gB drive - I do have a couple of "new old stock" 1gB drives that I bought "just in case" about 5 years ago. I've just tried one briefly to see if my PC will read it & it seems ok.
Be happy to let one go for a reasonable sum if that proves to be the issue - email is ian at serviceguy dot co dot uk
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Even more impressively - some 25 years after the desk series was discontinued, folks still love the hardware & are finding innovative ways to use it. 🥰
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19 hours ago, Nathan Bell said:
None of the cues in my OrbXF are fading.
It's been unused for a couple of years, and when I powered it up I got a warning about a battery needing to be replaced? Would a dead internal battery cause cues to not fade at all?
Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
Nathan - it would be a good idea to replace the battery as the memory on the mainboard is used to save patch & show data & is usually run direct from the battery when the desk isn't powered up so with a failing battery, you'll find that you'll need to reload shows each time you power the desk on.
The battery doesn't take long to swap - from memory it's a CR2032 - the most time will be opening the case to access the battery.
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13 hours ago, Ian Garland said:
Not yet but as it only draws so little power I can probably repurpose an old Laccie external drive PSU for the job and release the bench PSU from duties
Good news! If the Frog is sat in a corner and not being moved then a homebrew solution for the PSU if you have one about is going to be cheaper than buying a new spare.
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On 5/28/2021 at 10:59 AM, kgallen said:
@Ian Garland where are you in the UK? @iank99 is in the Midlands, I'm in the South West and @KWR88 is South Wales. Do you have access to another Frog/Jester PSU? They are still purchasable as a spare as far as I know although I think they are around £90 (Stage Electrics used to list them but it seems not now).
When you say above you "checked the PSU" was this using a voltmeter across the PSU XLR pins whilst not connected to the desk? @iank99 is the external PSU a linear regulator or SMPSU? If linear then I'd expect you to measure 12V. If SMPSU then without a load (or the very small load of a DVM) then the output voltage might be unstable.
@iank99 speaks with authority but I wouldn't be prepared to write off the machine just yet.
Yeah - the PSU's are switched mode so you won't get proper values without a load connected but to do that - ensure you've not got a desk lamp plugged in - just in case.
Possible hardware issue, Fader 5 affecting fader 19
in FLX
Posted
@keredyelesobYour local Zero dealer should be able to help you with parts - the part you want is 1722-000006-00. If they can't help then I keep them in stock :)