Matching a chase to music

[lugamil]

Hi all,

I was wondering if it is possible to match a chase, cue or effect to music. I found some topics asking similar questions but most are years old and much has changed since.
I'm pretty sure the FLX S-series does not support this on a hardware level (maybe it could be done with one of the ports?).

With the last update however, OSC was introduced which I believe could make this possible with an external device.
I've never used OSC before. Would this be possible and how? Has anyone tried/done this?

Can't wait to hear your thoughts.

Regards

Mil

[Edward Z88]

Hi Mil,

51 minutes ago, lugamil said:

I was wondering if it is possible to match a chase, cue or effect to music. I found some topics asking similar questions but most are years old and much has changed since.

FLX S consoles do not have Sound-to-Light functionality, so there is no way of automating a chase to follow the beat of an audio track.

When a chase is programmed on a playback, the playback's button automatically becomes a Tap Tempo, allowing you tap the playback's button to synchronise the chase to a beat.

52 minutes ago, lugamil said:

With the last update however, OSC was introduced which I believe could make this possible with an external device.
I've never used OSC before. Would this be possible and how? Has anyone tried/done this?

You could program a sequence of cues on a playback. Theoretically, you could then send repeated OSC GO messages to trigger the cues on this particular playback one after the other, essentially resulting in the cue stack on the playback behaving as a chase. To do this you would need to come up with a way of a software package taking an audio track, and then repeatedly sending a particular OSC message on each beat.

Alternatively, you could use more of a "timecoded" approach, where you start an audio track in a software package, and automatically at certain points in the track the software package sends OSC messages to FLX S, which then trigger certain cues at different points in the song.

Hope this helps,

[lugamil]

Hi Edward

42 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:

When a chase is programmed on a playback, the playback's button automatically becomes a Tap Tempo, allowing you tap the playback's button to synchronise the chase to a beat.

I currently use this a lot. It does what I want most of the time but I've been in situations where there's a DJ or something before or after the show I'm doing. When the DJ or whatever is playing I don't need my entire package but some lights is always a plus. Right now I have some chases using global tap tempo for these situations so if the speed of the lights has to be adjusted it is easy. Still, it would be better if the speed could be set automatiscally.

48 minutes ago, Edward Z88 said:

You could program a sequence of cues on a playback. Theoretically, you could then send repeated OSC GO messages to trigger the cues on this particular playback one after the other, essentially resulting in the cue stack on the playback behaving as a chase. To do this you would need to come up with a way of a software package taking an audio track, and then repeatedly sending a particular OSC message on each beat.

Alternatively, you could use more of a "timecoded" approach, where you start an audio track in a software package, and automatically at certain points in the track the software package sends OSC messages to FLX S, which then trigger certain cues at different points in the song.

In the example above, the timecoded approach obviously wouldn't work. I don't know what the DJ will do.

Using OSC, is it possible to send a GO/NEXT signal to a fader which is set to global tap tempo to set the global tap tempo?
Either way I think i'll try some things out with a Raspberry PI and see what happens.

Regards

Mil

[Edward Z88]

Hi Mil,

18 minutes ago, lugamil said:

In the example above, the timecoded approach obviously wouldn't work. I don't know what the DJ will do.

Correct - based on your original description I wasn't sure whether you were looking to sync to an audio track or live music.

19 minutes ago, lugamil said:

Using OSC, is it possible to send a GO/NEXT signal to a fader which is set to global tap tempo to set the global tap tempo?

It is not possible to trigger a Global Tap Tempo playback over OSC.

It is possible to send a Playback Go x message, where x is the playback you wish to trigger. Each time this command is sent you would step through each cue on playback x.

If you sent these commands to a chase that was running, you would end up with a mixture of the chase automatically running using Tap Tempo, and jumping cues when OSC GO messages are received.

I hope this makes sense.

[Lazer1543]

Hi Edward Z88,

I have an Zero 88 FLX S24.

I assume you didnt integrate the osc /beat/tap endpoint?

Is it planned to integrate this endpoint with an future version?

 

If not, is it possible to use the playback/next endpoint vor a variable chase, or does this only work with an explizit named chase?

 

Thanks

Lazer

[Edward Z88]

25 minutes ago, Lazer1543 said:

I have an Zero 88 FLX S24.

I assume you didnt integrate the osc /beat/tap endpoint?

Is it planned to integrate this endpoint with an future version?

There are currently no plans to implement a dedicated way of triggering the console's Global Tap Tempo remotely via OSC.

26 minutes ago, Lazer1543 said:

is it possible to use the playback/next endpoint vor a variable chase, or does this only work with an explizit named chase?

What you could do, is record your different lighting states into a playback. Then, rather than converting the playback into a Chase, leave it as a Cue Stack. Then, you could send the console a Playback x GO message over OSC each time there's a "beat", to advance through the lighting states on the playback in time with a beat.

Please let us know if you have any questions.

[KevTheSoundGuy]

We've been looking into replacing our old Leapfrog (which has broken down 3 times in the last 2 years) with an S48

The lack of a simple way to synchronise sound and light is a serious shortcoming with the S24/S48. even the cheapest and nastiest desks have this facility.  In a previous existence we used this desk https://www.thomann.co.uk/botex_dc2448_light_operator.htm (believe me the cheapness and nastiness shines through when you want to do something special with it

 

There are two main uses for this facility

1. Pantomime.  There are frequent song & dance numbers where having the lights 'dance to the same tune'  as the performers would enhance the show.  Yes the music is usually pre-recorded so timed changes could be programmed but this is very time consuming during setup  Our last pantomime had TWELVE song'/dance routines
2. Live  music shows/gigs.  Here it's likely you'd want to program a number of chases and then choose which chase to use depending on the songs played.

 

I'm building a box with an audio input that can provide  multiple digital outputs (it was intended to connect to the leapfrog trigger inputs).  It would be possible to have a wifi connection on the box

 

Our setup uses an Ethernet connection to some  Artnet to DMX receivers.  My view is once the location has networking it's possible to connect anything we need  to that network

What I'm unsure about is the structure of any messages I would need to send to act as a trigger

 

 

 

[kgallen]

Others will know better but over a network you’re probably looking at OSC

https://www.zero88.com/manuals/zeros/setup/triggers/osc-examples

Lots of post on this in the FLX and FLX S forums, have a look round. 

[Davidmk]

8 hours ago, KevTheSoundGuy said:

What I'm unsure about is the structure of any messages I would need to send to act as a trigger

Ah, well, while the manual reference provided by @kgallen gives you the structure of OSC messages you still have to choose which ones to use and that will depend on what the you think is the easiest to program.

For your panto I would look at simply sending a "go" for the next cue in your show. This probably simplifies your sending system and you are not going to get away with not programming states whatever you do.

For live music you may want to use a manual input to trigger specific cues or playbacks. I work in music venues and have a fairly sophisticated (new) TouchOSC interface to select colours, positions, gobos and effects quickly. These are all stored as cues in separate playbacks for each of colours, positions, etc. You could use the (free) original TouchOSC to do something similar.

NB Neither of these solutions fit well with chases. While there is an OSC command to control a playback's level you are probably better off triggering a cue that, in turn, triggers a chase playback (like you would have to if you wanted a chase in a programmed show).

Check out the OSC "release" message, you may need this to stop chases/effects when busking.  Also, look at macros for setting bpm (for panto) and/or having a tap button (for music but, maybe, for panto).